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Earlier this week, TikTok made its case in court against a bill that would require it to be divested by its Chinese parent company, ByteDance, or else, risk a nationwide ban. And joining us now is someone hoping to acquire that company, Frank McCourt, Project Liberty founder. Frank, it's good to see you. Maybe I want to start with a high-level question, Frank. I'm curious whether you agree, you think that TikTok does represent a national security risk, Frank.

Yeah, no, absolutely. We, yeah, absolutely believe that. We agree with the government's position. I think it's pretty clear to everyone now that the Chinese Communist Party controls TikTok and that, uh, they're holding the, uh, the, you know, information on 170 million Americans is not a good thing. It's, uh, it's, it's a real threat. And, of course, the ability to, to manipulate 170 million Americans is even more of a threat.

And Frank, you know, there, there is some skepticism though as this, as this kind of plays out that that the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party would actually ever permit a divestment. You know, how do you think about that?

Yeah, well, look, I, I don't have all the answers, Josh, but we're, we're, we're making a bet here, right? We're, we, we believe number one, the government's position will be upheld and we're going to find that out shortly that the, as you said, the oral arguments were just this past Monday. And so, once we get through that hoop, we'll see where we stand and I think that, um, my personal view is that ByteDance is going to have an important decision to make, which is whether they shut it down or, or sell the US portion. And, um, I, I, I'm betting they sell it and I don't, I, I, I don't want them to shut it down nor do the 170 million users want it to be shut down because people are using the app, they enjoy the app. That's not the issue. The issue is how the in, the people's data is being used. And what our plan is to actually migrate the 170 million users over to a new protocol where each individual would control their identity and their data.

So that's intriguing, Frank, because that's, that's a big question, right? I mean, let's say they divest and the sale happens. You know, a question that's out there and a fair one is you know, it, it'd be hard to imagine they part with the algorithm, the secret sauce. So what would, you know, American investors like yourself, what would you actually really be buying at that point?

Yeah, you'd be buying obviously the brand, the 170 million user base and all the content. And, and, uh, yeah, I want to highlight that we're, we're not interested in the algorithm. We don't need it and we don't want it. And, uh, and China said they're not going to, you know, they're not going to let go of it in any event. So, as a matter of fact, I'm, I think we may be the only ones that check all three boxes. And what I mean by that is that, um, we checked the CFIUS box, uh, we're not a national security threat, we're not, we're, we're American, not foreign. We checked the antitrust box, right? We're not big tech, so we don't have an antitrust issue. And we have built the tech stack that would enable us to onboard the user base of TikTok and, uh, and do so in, in, in a way that actually, as I said earlier, gives people control of their identity and their data and, and so forth. So, uh, we checked the three boxes. I think that's very, very important. We don't want or need the algorithm, um, as you point out. And so yeah, um, I'm, I'm pretty excited about our prospects. Of course, we'll see. Uh, we don't have a crystal ball in terms of what the outcome of the litigation is and, and we certainly don't know what TikTok or ByteDance will ultimately decide to do.

What, what about, Frank, just the politics of all this, you know? And by that, I mean, Trump and Harris are both on TikTok. Does that, does their enthusiasm any way potentially cloud whether this thing does get, you know, divested and sold?

I think, I think you're touching on a very, very important point. And here, herein lies the conundrum, right? We have, we have technology, TikTok is an example, but our own big tech platforms do the same thing. They scrape our data, aggregate it, apply algorithm, algorithms and, and get us to do stuff. And we're learning that some of that stuff is not good, right? It's harmful to democracy, it's harmful to our information ecosystem, you know, the mis- and disinformation. It's hard now to know what's fake and what's real. And, of course, we're reading more and more about the harms to, to children. So, we need to fix this internet technology and, uh, we can. I mean, that's, that's the good news. Project Liberty is all about a solution here. We're not, we're not here to just throw another log on the fire and say that, you know, the world's coming to an end. The, the, the internet is something that's here to stay. We all use it, presidential candidates use it. The point is the platforms are, are operating in a way that's very exploitative. And we need alternatives to TikTok, alternatives to the current big tech platforms where we get the good out of these platforms without having to suffer in the harms and suffering the bad.

Frank, thank you so much for joining the show today. Big, important topic. Appreciate it.

Yeah, Josh, thanks for your time. You take care yourself.