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Well, President Trump meeting with American CEOs today as part of a business round table. Our next guest says the CEOs he's meeting with are deeply concerned about the impact of tariffs and now a potential recession. Join me now is Bill George, former chairman and CEO of Medtronic and executive fellow at Harvard Business School. Bill, it's great to see you. So, in a former life, Bill, as we just referenced there, you were you were CEO, you were running a big important company. So, I'm curious, Bill, what you are telling CEOs and CFOs, you know, you're talking to them. And and if they're asking you for advice, how, Bill, do I navigate this new world? How do I navigate Trump 2.0? What are you telling them?

Well, there is a fear that struck through the CEOs that I've seen witnessed in person in December with 200 of them. I saw it recently this week in programs we had at Harvard. There is genuine fear about the negative impact, particularly of the tariffs, but a lot of things going on and the potential for retribution. So, I think many of them I'm just advising to them two things. One, number one, stay true to your purpose and your values. If you're not on mission, and stand behind that, and if you stand for something, your values, stand up and be counted. Not all of them agree with that. And the second thing is, uh, stay below the radar screen. There's no sense putting your head above the radar where you're going to get hit with crossfire and bullets. So stay below the radar screen and try not to get in the way. And you just put your head down and do your business with your customers. But keep your people grounded in their mission and values because in the end of the day, that's what matters. Your company's been around 50, 100, one case 300 years. Uh, you want, that's what people know and they're going to rely on that. And that's what keeps them focused on things like producing great products and quality and great services.

Do you think, Bill, to the extent possible, you also want to try to stay on President Trump's good side? I mean, you'd rather be there, right, than his bad side. And I'm wondering if there is, as a former CEO yourself, is there a potential playbook there? Like, for example, I think of Apple CEO, Tim Cook, and how during Trump 1.0, I think Cook really proved not only was he a talented executive, he was a very skilled diplomat. I mean, he he ultimately secured tariff exemptions, right? And now, Apple, of course, you saw that, Bill, they put out a big headline, hey, we're going to spend and invest $500 billion in the US over the next four years. President Trump liked that headline a lot. I'm just I'm wondering if is that the playbook, Bill? Should there be a playbook?

Well, he's very astute in politics, Tim is, and he's done a marvelous job with Apple. I think he's a fantastic CEO. But this plan that he, to so-called $500 billion, whether they'll actually spend that much remains to be seen. But that plan was in gestation for four years. This is not a new plan. He's been working on this, and it's tied in with the Chips Act. They worked with the Biden administration. So this is not new. He was astute enough to give President Trump credit for the win, so the President Trump could announce it with him. But I'd also point out, the next day that the president attacked him on diversity, and Tim, as you know, is gay. Uh, and so he went right down his throat on getting rid of diversity. And, uh, and Tim Cree has a very diverse organization, a very inclusive organization, and they work well together. Uh, so if I were advising Tim today, I'd say, stay the course, Tim, on what you believe. Yeah, go ahead and invest heavily in the United States, great, because it makes sense. They were way too heavily, uh, oriented towards China, and they had too much commitment there. They need a balanced supply chain. So this made good business sense, and he was astute enough to give President Trump the win. But I don't think he compromised one bit.