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Welcome to Warrior Money, the show devoted to supporting our brother and sister veterans in business. I'm Patrick Murphy, and I'm Dan Coons. Today's guest is a certified financial planner committed to helping our veterans and military families achieve financial independence through education and community service. Please welcome Sarah Gardner. Sarah, welcome to Warrior Money.Thank you.So sorry, we, we start off every, every episode with the bottom line up front. So bluff question for you. What's the one piece of advice you would give to new homeowners?

A new homeowners really is knowing where your benefits are and making sure that you do have the financial security um for those uh unexpected.

Yeah. So listen, uh, Dan and I are both Army veterans. We know, you know, you come from, uh, the Air Force side of the family. You were a military spouse, your husband is retired Air Force. My brother was Air Force, by the way, uh, so we appreciate that, you know, the Air Force Blue, um.With military spouse, that community right now with military spouses, 24% are unemployed, and these are military spouses looking for work, but you know, they've over the last 5, 1015, 20 years they've been in, they're every 3 years they're doing PCSs, permanent changes station, um, you know, what was your experience like as a military spouse and what advice do you give to them?

Sure. uh, so, um, probably similar, um, so our first, um,Deployment was down um to Panama and.I couldn't find a job when we're used to a two income household, uh, so that was our biggest challenge to, to get through a basically debt that was related to a two income household, uh, and trying to find resources associated with that, uh, again, pretty kind of this remote setting that we have now, um, but it's knowing those resources, um, and finding out, going to your family services, um, each branch has them, and finding out how to get in there. I was volunteering multiple times.Just so that I could figure out where I can find a job and start paying those bills and trying to just get out there and being connected. And now it's a little bit easier, but those deployments are again, when you're up and moving constantly, that does make it a little bitharder.

Yeah, it seems like you come from a service, a service oriented family, a service oriented. Can you tell me a little bit about your parents and how they helped you influence the direction of both your career and the work that you're doing now?

Uh, yeah, so they're both educators, um, and so that's where I come from. So when I'm in that financial planning world, I am coming from an education standpoint, so I meet people where they're at. Um, so whether it's on my pro bono side or my client base, I want to find out where they're at and then we just build from there. Um, so definitely in that education and again that service side, uh, that you're talking about, um.Both sides, but both my spouse and then my parents have given me that an effort for service.

And how do you how do you see that uh that educator perspective helping folks within financial? because it's like when I think about a teacher, I think about someone that's going to teach me history or somebody that's going to teach me math, but we know that um personal finance is very personal, obviously, but it's also critical to your well-being.And I'm always interested between the balance of the art and the science of the two. Can you talk a little bit about how that's been helpful for you?

Yeah, so it's again it's meeting where they're at. So um that personal finances is a mission I'm on also, so we don't have personal finance in schools, and if they're not learning it at home, it's a missed opportunity. So while it can be a volunteer option, I'm always trying to give back so that we can educate.the, the young ones coming up and graduating, right, um, but also trying to give back, um, in the regards from Financial Planning Association, um, and meeting people, um, trying to give them resources is really where it's at, and not judging, right? Um, they don't know. And so with the information that we have.We can go ahead and educate them again, whether it's on that personal finance side, on the banking side, starting, investing, um, just balancing checkbooks, those kind of items, you know, there's no judgment, it's just starting where they're at so that they can only lift from there. You,

you keepsaying starting where they're at and like we, we, we're pretty big on keep it simple stupid. And so like starting starting where you're at means a lot of things to a lot of different people.Um, when, when you think about that, are you looking at time, duration of the market, where like, what is it, what does it mean to start where they're at? Like, what are your key considerations? What are the things you think about? and how does it help you with your personal, like the personalvi advice that you give to folks?

Yeah, so for me it means from an education standpoint. So the timing of the market, uh, I don't necessarily believe in timing the market, they have ebbs and flows, right? The idea is that long term, uh, viewpoint, um, as a financial planner, I look at that long term view, but I have people who don't know how to balance a checkbook as an example that I work with on our pro bono space so.Personal finance space, have a lot of people that have acquired a lot of debt. Um, and again, it's, it's not something that they didn't know about, right? And now they find themselves in a situation and so it's talking to them about how they can get out of those debt and giving them the tools, um, to basically, uh, you know, leading the horse to water, um, scenario. Uh, you want to go ahead and help them.To move on from where they're at, um, but then from my client base, just to your point, I have some people that don't understand what an IRA is, right? Um, I don't, I have people who don't understand what the uh the different employer benefits are, so I want to talk to them about how they can use that as a benefit, uh, from.That space. And then I have people that are way past that, and it's talking about the investments and the allocations, and it's maybe even some liquid alternative investments or semi-liquid into alternative investments that we work with from, from them, but they have to have that good foundation before we're building into these more secure, um,Different securities that we're investingin.

That's a really good perspective, really interesting perspective, because it's like with our military community, people, I remember distinctly being at basic training, the very first paycheck somebody's ever gotten, and the absolute crazy things that they would buy out of their first paycheck. And then I remember at the very end, now people are thinking about how do we transition out of this responsibly. So it's a big, it's a big journey for a lot of different people.

Yeah, and, and I love the fact that you're talking about personalized advice because it's not just cookie cutter, you have to understand, you know, where they are, meet them where they are, as you mentioned. How about as far as homeownership and homeownership as far as long term financial security, what are your feelings about that?

Yeah, so we find ourselves in an interesting situation right now, right? Um, a lot of people are floored by the interest rates, so it's keeping them out of a home housing opportunity.Uh, and so looking at that, but it's relative, right? So we're, if we look back, right, we had double digit mortgage rates before. It's just higher than what it was for many years where we're in the, you know, 3% call it maybe sub 3s, some people were lucky enough to lock into those rates, but the idea is, where are you financially? What can you afford, right? And soThat's the, the space that we talk to and talking to them about, especially with veterans, they, they have the possibility of a VA loan, which helps them without having to have money down, right? Um, and then we go into the possibility of a civilian space where it does help to have as much money down as possible, um, for when you're getting into that and avoiding possible mortgage interest, uh, right, uh, mortgage insurance, excuse me, and looking atThat to find out what is that true affordability. And really it comes from what is that income versus your expenses to find out what that happy medium is going to be for that affordability. But it is harder now.

Yeah, I was gonna say Dan Dan and I are both entrepreneurs but also investors and and you leveraging, you know, things like the VA home loan, right? So because you have that, whether it's live in that home or to use it as investment property, uh, but you walk people through that, right? And what their plan is they plan their work, work their plan.

Yep, exactly, exactly, yep. You're going back to the plan, right? It's a path, right? It's not a stationary point, things change, right? So you've got to have the plan

for that. You're making my heart hurt because I had a I had an under 3 mortgage on the VA loan before I had a refinance to a construction loan, and I was like, oh my roots out of my soul that I didn't get to keep it. Um, all right, so we think about homeownership as a means of wealth and time.Uh, but you also see it as a public service or as a calling to you. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you do and helping promote homeownership?

Yeah, so, uh, again it depends, right? Um, so in my volunteer space, I work with homes for our troops a lot of the time, um, so I work with military veterans, um, to go ahead and give them that personal finance background, um, to get them eligible um to receive an adapted home. These are for our wounded veterans for post 9/11, uh, and so I work with them in that space. I have um family, I have theChildren of my clients, right, that are all trying to get into that space and it's trying to find out is, is that the right thing to do right now? I'm actually finding out that the, the younger generation isn't necessarily looking for home ownership. They don't see the benefit of this liquid equity that's been touted, right? So you're working with them through that space, and eventually it, it can make sense, but it's trying to find that happy balance.For what their actual goals are versus something that's just been mandated to them and they feel like they have to do it, and it's finding out that that flexibility. On the reverse, I'm also seeing that with my retirees, they're finding out it's nice to not have the home ownership. Um, I have families now that are selling their homes so that they can go where their grandchildren are and move around, um, and have a little bit of that temporary option.Um, but if you are wanting that additional security that typically does come with homeownership, then we talked through that space.

That's a really interesting perspective that we haven't heard yet, which is like your phases of your life are going to dictate the liquidity or liquidity of the asset that you primarily live in. So can you, can you talk a little bit more, like a little bit more about that phase of life story because that's, that's really interesting.

Uh, yeah, so again, uh, grandparents, right, um, so you become a new grandparent and you don't want to be beholden to staying at your house when like a lot of people, they're, they're not in state or right next door to you, right? Some people are fortunate enough to have that family dynamic that's close, um, but others are out of state and even by coastal, right? Um, so what I'm finding is in that space that they want to go ahead, give up that liquidity, and they'll rent.For those long term rentals, um, well, whether it's just being born or they're helping to support, and one of those things that came out, um, is a perfect example is during COVID when we weren't tied to, we were working where we had the jobs, right? Um, so you're in a big city, maybe you're not a big city person.Um, and you found out, hey, in this remote setting, I can actually go back to where my family is and still have gainful employment, right? So it gave the flexibility that we didn't previously have. And although we're all going back into offices, some of us, right? Um, the idea is, is you still have some built in flexibilities that we didn't have before. Um, so I haveMid-career people who brought their their children back to their extended cousins that they really didn't have relationships and it's fostering that community and that that family dynamic that wasn't previouslythere.

Yeah, well, we appreciate on that fostering the family dynamic and you mentioned Homes for our troops, full disclosure, I'm on their board as you.You know, they've already done 400 free homes for veterans and it's not just about giving them a home, it's put them, you know, give them people like you, Sarah, that wraps around, hey, are you tracking, you know, you might not have a mortgage rate because it's a free home, but you have bills and expenses and making sure that they're doing what they can do to live within their budgets. Like, like we said earlier, you know, planning their work and working their plans. So thank you so much. Um, we're gonna take a quick break, but we're right back with Sarah Gardner and Warrior Money.Welcome back to War Your Money. We're here with Sarah Gardner. Sarah, thanks for being on War Your Money. Um, right before we left, we talked about some of your pro bono efforts with Homes for our troops, but you're also very active. In fact, you're the pro bono chairman for the what's called the FPA, that's the Financial Planning Association. Tell us what the FPA is and what you do, uh, for them in your leadership role.

Sure, um, and just a quick correction, I'm a former, um, pro bono chair, um, so I just want to caveat that, um, but I've been working with the Financial Planning Association of Colorado for over a decade.Um, and in that space we're just helping the, the people that don't previously have financial planning, right? Um, and a lot of people think they cannot have financial planning advice because they don't have enough money. And so what we do is typically an annual event, um, and it is nationwide. So my local chapter here in Colorado, um, we normally do that in the fall.Um, but it is across the country. Uh, and what we're doing is we provide a day of financial planning so people can come in, they get to meet with people that are certified financial planners like myself, uh, where they can go ahead and ask those questions one on one. That's personalized advice. So again, I've had people come back because of the times I've been with them, that they took my advice the prior year and now theyHave something to build on, um, and that's the most rewarding to, to see that they're taking those tools that we're giving them in those days that, that are available. And we do seminars as well, so there's different seminars that they can just break out to if they don't want to have that one on one advice. But at the end of the day, they're getting those tools from, again, that starting from that place of where they're at, um, so that they can build from there.

That's awesome. Uh, and I, I can't keep going back to the fact that, you know, you were a military spouse, uh, your husband who served, uh, for a long time in the Air Force, and that you're continue to give back to military families, to your community. You just mentioned that annual day of financial free financial advice that's personalized. Uh, what do you see as some of the biggest challenges American families, whether in Colorado or beyond, are facing right now?

Sure, I, well, and there there's a lot, I guess I would say, um, it there's always an issue, I guess it's not a new thing, right? It's just the time of where they're at is more of what how I look at it, right? So whether it's a loss of a job and you don't have a savings to to cut the difference, right?Um, and reaching out and finding out what benefits are, right? Um, so there are a lot of programs where we can look at to help with that. Sometimes it's the debt management, right? Um, so they didn't have that personal financing, and so they found themselves a little over their skis trying to find out how, how to get above it, right? Um, and so we give them the tools to get out.Of that and kind of that light at the end of the tunnel. It is typically a tunnel. You didn't get to where you are in a day. So we want to try and build from that. Um, so giving them that structure, that path again, from that perspective. Um, but when you're finding yourself without a job or you're moving, right? Um, and so you did have a good job and now you're moving to another location.Not to mention, um, what's going on um with kids, um, from that perspective, trying to help them, um, adjust as well. So you're moving and that's an adjustment, but then you also have your family also, so trying to work with them through those spaces, um, and giving that connection like military one source as an example, they've got great tutoring, um, that helps with kids. Um, my kids utilized it, um, in that space, so using that, but also again using that on the different.Bass or posts or commands where you're at, um, finding out what resources you have there through the family resources um that are available to you.

Yeah, and I think you start them young, as you mentioned that as you know, you come from an educated parents and even for me, I'm a Dave Ramsey fan, you know, having 3 months, uh, of salary, you know, bank for that emergency fund, things such as, you know, I have my kids, you know, understanding what savings is, what your spend is, you know, when they're getting money for doing chores and and working on the side.So, yeah,

Iwas just thinking like when, when you're talking about the uh the time that you were a military spouse and then you're thinking about transitioning service members and one of the, the points of our show is that we think that we have got access into communities of people that are currently challenged and challenging their, their access to because of the podcast, the nature of the podcast. If you're, if you're talking.Talking and communicating to somebody that's going through, they're 2022 years old. They're trying to figure out how to get good advice. They may have their first paycheck or two. Like, what do you, how are you navigating them through? Like how, how, how should we be thinking about that? How should they be communicated with? Like what does that even look like?

Yeah, um, well, if we're fortunate enough, it's a first paycheck, right? Uh, so maybe they're not used to the spend yet, so similar to what you were saying, you got the first paycheck, especially the higher, right, exactly, that's exactly what the adrenaline things, right, trucks, motorcycles, um, you know, those kinds of things. I do get a lot of that. Um, so having that conversation ahead of time, um, so there is the yellow ribbon program that's aPre-deployment and then they have a post-deployment and they even have a during um during deployment for family members um to be able to have access to financial planners. Um, so I did go ahead in that space. I also volunteered in that space to to help with that. um, and then there's also on on bases um through the family programs there are some that have personal financial planners in that space to help set up that that.I like to call it a spending plan, not a budget. It just sounds better if you're spending, right? Um, but it's, it's just a, just a little play on words for me. Um, but the idea is, is we want to make sure you start building that just to your point. If you have no savings, then $25 a month is a lot better than what you started with the previous month, right? So what can you afford to pay, but the biggest thing I try and talk about is pay yourself first, right? Which is meaning to the building.That savings so that if something does come up, you have those resources available and you're not relying on the credit, which is typically high interest credit. Yeah.

And how would you think about, so that's for the service member the young the young spouse and the person that's just like, I'm a little scared. I don't know what's going on. I'm here trying to figure this out. How do you think about connecting with that person and not just the military service member, but the spouse of the service member too?

Well, let's extend it to the spouses as well. Um, but it is getting them into understanding their resources. So a lot of times, um, there might be a person, a point of contact with who their spouse does work with, that is also a spouse that understands where they're at, um, and what they're going through if there is a deployment as an example. Um, so you want toMake sure you're building that community, um, instead of thinking you, you're just in this by yourself and you're going it alone, because they're guaranteed there's other people that have been through it and probably multiple times. And just having that community, knowing that someone else has been in it, um, may not be exactly the same as what you're going through, but the idea is, is that you want to build that.uh, so that you have the resources and you're not out there feeling like you're on your own island and thinking.

Yeah, we had a guest one of our first show, Liz O'Brien from Heroes and she was a spouse, and she, her number one piece of advice was, go exercise the community that you're within in the military side, understand what they're going through and find your mentorship there. So, umWe, uh, we, we end every episode with our Warrior Q&A. It's 3 rapid fire questions. It gets us to the kind of the end and makes the kind of the salient points come out. So, uh, the first question we generally ask in Warrior Q&A, and it's my favorite question is, what's some money advice that you, that you know now that you'd wish you'd been told earlier in your life?

I've been told, I know you said rapid fire, um, it's

all good.

It does go back, yeah, it does go back to the, the whole building those reserves, so you're not relying on on that. So I was at that epitome of the credit card problem, right, um, and because I didn't have those reserves, so.It's better to pay yourself first than than accumulating thatdebt.

I think you just answered the question too. What is the what is the biggest mistake people make on their on their on their journeys? Yeah, away from the credit cards and don't if you can't afford it. All right, last question, um, the most unexpected part of your journey, what has been the most unexpected part of your journey?

How rewarding it truly is to be able to give back and educate and see their growth with the people that I've worked with.

Yeah, that's wonderful. I was thinking about your journey from educator to service member to military spouse and how you've kind of followed your purpose as it relates to educating all the way through what you're doing now. So thanks for joining us. Yeah,

you're a great American. Thanks for all that you do.Uh, with the Financial Planning Association, for homes for our troops, uh, to do that annual, you know, fiscal advice that you give for free there in Colorado, uh, and you and your family service, uh, to our military, especially the US Air Force. You're a great American. Sarah, thanks for joining us on more your money.Thank you. Listen, that's our show, Warrior Money. So make sure you listen, subscribe, and review Warrior Money wherever you get your podcast and find us on Yahoo Finance. I'm Patrick Murphy and

I'm Dan Kons. We'll see you again next week.

This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.