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The rainbow capitalism aspect that I'm a little bit more critical of is the ways in which they parade that float down the streets during Pride Month and then they disappear. They don't support or sponsor an employee resource group. They don't support any real meaningful contributions or programs with advocacy organizations, all the things that really matter that help the community thrive. They don't do that.

Welcome to living not so fabulously. If you were a business owner and you saw a virtually untapped $1.4 trillion dollar market, would you try to get yourself some of that?

HE double hockey sticks? Yes, I would,

exactly.So there's a hot discussion going on these days about rolling back DEI efforts almost sort of as a cudgel to attack the LGBTQ plus community, but let's be fair, corporations were rolling out these outreach efforts and throwing our praises because they want to tap into that lucrativemarket,

almost like what they're doing with greenwashing right now, a little bit, yeah. So today's guest is Jason Dialesi, a dynamic entrepreneur leading media, real estate and hospitality ventures while driving political and social justice initiatives as managing.Director of Fuerza Strategy Group Jason joins us to revisit a 2021 op ed he published on New Jersey.com or NJ.com, the news publication in which he called out corporations for get this turning Pride Month into a publicity stunt

and pay attention to Jason's call to actions to specific members of the LGBTQ plus community and the deliberate actions that we must take now in these increasingly unwelcoming times. So with that, let's kick start our interview with Jason.

Welcome Jason to Living out so fabulously. So let's start with this idea of rainbow capitalism.

What is it? I have lots of opinions on it, uh, you know, I think in many ways that it is the performative box check that a lot of companies have been doing, um.It really was something that over the last, I'll say probably 5, 10 years has really developed, and it seems like every year there was another company that was kind of taking a turn at really being out there front and center, but the last 3 or 4 years, I think there's been a number of companies that have started to be more mindful of what they're doing, and whether that'sthem being more intentional behind the scenes, which I think there's a value in that. But the really the rainbow capitalism aspect that I'm a little bit more critical of is the ways in which they parade that float down the streets during Pride Month and then they disappear. They don't support or sponsor an employee resource group. They don't support any real meaningful contributions or programs.With advocacy organizations, all the things that really matter that help the community thrive. They don't do that. Um, and that's something that I've been somewhat critical of, but I think there are some good examples of rainbow capitalism in action, so I'm not totally critical, but there definitely are a whole bunch of bad cases.

Yeah. So you actually penned a piece back in 2021 and, uh, was it New Jersey.com, um, a news publication, and you actually called it Pride Month was a publicity stunt.I don't wanna say Pride Month itself, but what companies were doing during Pride Month was a publicity stunt. So,Has your opinion on that changed with what you just said?

In different ways, there are examples where I think it's really taken a bad turn and especially this year with what's coming up very soon of another 4 years of really tone and tenor that's uncertain for the queer community and what it means. Um, I think.That there were indications that this was somewhat starting and coming down the pike, and people saw that over the summer and now most recently, I think it was Meta announced that they're backing off on their DEI policies. I read earlier today that it seems like Apple is standing their ground just like Costco did.Um, so what that's going to look like, I don't think anyone can ever really tell, and that's part of the problem with this rainbow capitalism idea is that there's no good measure of how these programs are having an impact, and that makes it harder on both sides of the street. The companies themselves internally can't measure what they're doing, so they can't say that, hey, we're having this result, and this is why we should be investing X amount over how many years. But conversely,Consumers can't see it all that well aside from the headlines. So that's where it really becomes this sort of performance art and action is that consumers are just taking what they perceive and not what's really happening. You don't know if a company has an employee resource group and if they're supporting it, they're getting involved with the gay and lesbian Chamber of commerce or whatever else they might be doing. You don't necessarily see that from the outside.

It's interesting you bring that up because I do think thatUh, when it comes to certain things, companies do a really good job at telling the story of what it is that they're doing, how they're supporting the community, how they're doing various things, but it does seem that there's a hesitancy to do that with the work that they're doing for the LGBT community.In line with you with what you just said about the pullbacks and we're seeing them, right? Meta isn't the only one we've seen a number of companies say they're pulling back and we're also seeing them saying that it's not just their DENI thing is that they're actually going to reduce uh being active in the community, not participating in parades, not participating in various community activities, um.It kind of feels like we're moving towards an maybe in a time of exclusion rather than inclusion. Do you think that's the case?

I do, and I think that that's where the national tone really comes into play, the fact that that's been OK or that that's going to become more and more OK, and that's where we really need to be more conscious as a community of who we're supporting for elected office to change that tone. And that's not just the president but also going all the way down.To local office, it has an impact. In New Jersey, we had a situation where a sitting state senator just made comments the other day that were not very, uh, very friendly to the community, and that's we have to pay attention to what's on the ballot because that's going to set the tone for what companies do and who they decide to become friendly with.

Do you think then maybe that we've taken a little bit of a passive role when it comes toThe kinds of things that have been said out in the news media or what these politicians are saying and us not being as vocal as we need to to signal to these companies, hey, stand up for our rights.

I do, and I'm going to say this somewhat emphatically that I think it's white cisgender gay men have really taken a backseat because we have been granted certain rights over time that members of color in our community and the trans members of our community have not been afforded the same opportunities, and we have an obligation to stand up for their rights as well, and that's where I think that we really need to, the cisgender gay white men really need to stand up and say,A, you know, an attack on one is an attack on all. We're part of this larger community and we're going to stand strong together.

Absolutely, I definitely agree with that. You know, it kind of does beg the question of when you look at these corporate corporations, if they're not genuinelySupporting the LGBT community, they're doing it in a per a performative way and uh it almost seems like if they are not able to do it in a performative way, they're just gonna not do it at all, right? How do we signal to them, you need to do it in a genuine way.

It's tough. Um, I think a large part of it is just being conscious as a consumer, but at the same time, there are only so many products that we actually everyday people go out and buy, right? You can choose to shop at Costco or choose to shop at Walmart, Target, all that, but at the same time you have large, like the big four accounting firms.We don't daily consumers aren't going out and picking a big four accounting firm, nor are we thinking about, I'll say the stocks you buy, who pays attention to who, who the accountant and the auditor who's hired every year for their whatever investments they have.

I think theonly ones we know are the ones who do the accounting for the Oscars and the Golden Globes.

It's like, so we don't pay attention to that stuff. So it's really, but those are the companies that employ a lot of people too that we have to pay attention to. So that that's where I think it comes into.Find ways to be more vocal about it.

So you, you pointed the finger at cis white gay men. What can cis white gay men do better to help the community as a whole?

Getting involved with advocacy organizations. I'll say right in New Jersey, we have Garden State Equality, which is the largest and one of the oldest advocacy works, um, they're the ones who fought for gay marriage to be a right in New Jersey.Um, so really getting involved, showing up, they have awesome events and they do a lot with health centers and LGBT community centers that are really, it's important work and working through that network, attending programs and events and supporting others and uplifting voices that are not necessarily cisgender white gay. Yeah.

It kind of feels awkward, I would say with us.Three sitting here at the table and we are the we identify as the group that you're talking about. Um but I also think I will call out that we've had other guests on the podcast that are, that's the part of our purpose is to lift up more voices with the podcast and to show the examples of other people in the community, not just with this living not so fabulous show, but with our Queer Money show to have those kinds of voices because I think it does.We always say to these corporations and to politicians and to uh to the general public that representation matters. It also matters within our community. We need to understand that that representation means that we need to be supportive of other aspects. We are, we are a community unless we decide that we're not going to be a community, and I think that's the question that a lot of people are asking.Ciss gay white men right now, are you truly part of the community? Yeah,

absolutely. It's something that, um, you know, I work in politics a whole lot, and there was a big question after the outcome of the election, you know, is it because of the conversation about trans individuals in sports and what that means? Um, and I have yet to see any polling that indicates and other political operatives who I've spoken to, there's no evidence that that was the driving factor or is the driving factor in any political conversation. So I think that theBecause one Thai was so vocal about that this election, the impulse is to gut react and go the exact opposite direction, but that's exactly what we can't do. We can't leave a part of our community behind in this conversation. Yeah,

I thinkwe kind of need to remember that there are parties who would like to divide and conquer us, and we don't want to let that happen, right? Yeah,

absolutely.

So for a lot of LGBTQ plus focused businesses, June is like Christmas to them, right? They make as much money in June as they maybe do all the rest of your combined. What do you think these, how do you think these rollbacks are going to affect those smaller businesses?

That's the concerning part is the, you know, mom and pop shops, I'll say if you will, that are queer owned. Um, I think it's going to have an impact on them, but I think there are other ways to find opportunities throughout the year, and I'll even say as someone, when I built my business originally, we were all in political campaigns, which was great, every September, October, November, just like Pride Month. It was phenomenal. It was a feast, but then the rest of the year it was awful.So we need to find ways. There's a new app everywhere is queer, where queer businesses can list themselves, opportunities like that to then pay attention, get more businesses listed there to support these organizations throughout the entire year. That's going to be better for them and better for the community as a whole, more sustainable.

Do you have any suggestions of what folks can do outside of the month of June to generate more business for their small business?

I think finding opportunities toInterface with those advocacy groups and network through. So I'm a member of the New Jersey Pride Chamber of Commerce, and there are events 12 months a year constantly going. They keep me busy. Um, Garden State Equality. I'll even say something, this is total. My partner and I, we're both science people. My, even though I work in politics, my degree is in public health. We for my birthday in August, we went to the Liberty Science Center right in Jersey City, which has a Liberty Science.Or after dark. They do it every Thursday. And in August, they did their Pride Month celebration. So there were queer vendors there. Um, and it was a really cool opportunity, but it was something I just happened to see online and I said, wow, this is a cool thing to do. And there are tons of programs like that across the entire year. So I think it's just about getting out there and networking and finding those opportunities and then building more opportunities organically. And I think we'll find ways to do that over time.

Thank you forsharing that. Hold that thought. We'll be right back after this break.

Thanks for joining us again for the second portion of Living Out So Fabulously. So Jason, you've worked with a number of startups and as we see these kinds of pullbacks happening at the large corporate level, um, how do you think that's going to impact some of these startups that are focused on serving the LGBT community or individuals within these corporations who are LGBT?

I worry about the aspect.Of more so how those startups interact with larger organizations in particular. So I'll give the example of being involved with the Pride chamber. I was recently part of their inaugural pitch competition in New Jersey, which was sponsored by a large pharmaceutical company in New Jersey. If that large pharmaceutical company all of a sudden pulled back on its DEI funding and said, we're not going to do this.I would have lost that opportunity up there and pitch, which for me it wasn't so much about winning, losing, whatever. It was more so about just the opportunity to get in front of people who are a different segment than the markets that I currently service and speak to them, and it was a great opportunity. But if that large corporation suddenly pulls that funding and that program disappears, that's where I think the startups are going to start to struggle. There's not going to be that organic incubation that's kind of happening right now.

It's almost like that I've heard this before thatWin or lose going on Sharp Shark Tank really helps your business, and you're kind of saying the same thing for a lot of folks who have small businesses that serve the LGBT community, these larger organizations can help them win or lose depending on how they show up in the community.

Yeah, yeah, I'll say for the record I did win, but that wasn't my, wasn't my intention. But now I got an awesome, awesome opportunity. I'm actually going up to Dartmouth to the um Tuck School of Business, and they.BMS is the pharmaceutical company is giving me one of their scholarships that they have to that program up at Dartmouth. So doing a certificate program on growing diverse businesses. So then in turn, I'll turn to that ideally to other queer owned businesses. So it's kind of starting that snowball effect. So once again, if they pull that funding, it'sThat's a lost opportunity for so many potential future people. So

let'sflip the script a little bit. What are the adverse consequences for businesses if they don't connect with the community? If they, they just stick with the straight white upwardly mobile.Rich guys,

I think it's a loss of revenue, you know, I think I read something, it's like $1.4 trillion is what the queer community spends globally every year. Um, so, you know, that's like that big picture number. But breaking that down to scale, I think there, there are the possibilities of losing a lot of money for these companies, but we also as a community have to be intent.with that. When we see bad things, I refuse to eat at Chick fil A. It is a very sore subject in my house, um, but I refuse to go there just because of what the statements they've made in the past. And I think it's important for us all to stand our ground when we see companies like that that take actions against the community.

Yeah, definitely.Um, so how has this impacted your personal life? Have you had felt any of the effects of these kinds of things happening, the rollbacks or maybe the statements that you've made publicly about how businesses are interacting with the LGBT community?

I, I personally haven't had anything negative happen. I'll say that that comes from a point of privilege, again, being such gender white, um, I think that's helped a lot and prevented some of that.Um, but at the same time, there may be ways that I don't even know, um, that people haven't necessarily been outwardly aggressive to me about it, but maybe they've seen my business online, then found the editorial and said, you know what, we're not going to hire that company because theyhave opinions that we don't agree with. Um, and that's fine because at the end of the day, I don't want to do business with people like that. There's plenty of people who do want to include others and include everyone that I'm happy to do business with.

Have you then seen on the flip side that maybeBusinesses were more attracted to engaging with you because of that?

Absolutely. I mean, we are doing a ton of work with queer organizations and queer owned businesses, and I try to help out every single one that comes to us, no matter what scale they're looking for support of, um, because I think we have to support one another, like I've said, um, but I definitely think that I've seen more come our way because of that.

Yeah. So for anAspiring LGBTQ plus entrepreneur who's just thinking about getting into it, and seeing all the headwinds that we're all look see coming down the pike.WhatWords of encouragement would you give them to still push through and and build that business?

I'll say that at the beginning, it just seems like it's impossible, but little by little it gets easier. So you just have to stick with it, network, find those members of the community who are there who are going to help you up, help uplift you, they're out there. So just stickwith it.

Yeah, definitely. I think that, you know, you brought up theThis number and John and I have referenced this a number of times ourselves, this number of $1.4 trillion in purchasing power that our community has every year and oftentimes we look at that and we say, oh well this this corporation or that corporation, this corporation needs to pay attention to our community, but I also wonder.12, 5% of that, if that were spent solely by us in the LGBT community, we're talking about anywhere from $14 to $70 billion of our own personal economy of the LGBT economy, the kinds of businesses that we could see flourish if we were much more intentional with it. And I think that brings up, goes back to your point of of uh uh is it queer.

everywhere

is queer everywhere is queer, right, that that we not only do we need to go there as a business and list ourselves, but we need to go there as individuals and support the businesses that we do seethere.

Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's where it starts is supporting one another. And I think like you said, it's a very small percentages, a very large number, um, so that's where it can have a big impact and support really small.Businesses. I'll say even as simple as things like buying soap at the farmers' market from the queer owned business or soup or whatever it is that they're selling, you know, that's, that's where it starts are those little dollars, not to mention that small businesses, the number of jobs, just career owned or not, that they provide to the economy and what that means as opposed to large corporations that it has a large

impact. You could also put that.$14 billion into a super PAC.

We definitely could. It was more right, more than all that was spent on the presidential election in 2024, that $14 billion could definitely sway elections. Let's look at your uh personal finances and your personal experience in running your own business. What kind of advice would you give, whether it'sSomething that you would say folks shouldn't do, that you made a mistake and you would recommend that they try not to do that, or something that you would encourage them to do.

It's a tough one. It was, there's been a lot of missteps along the way. Um, I think that I was very fortunate when I started out, um, that I had, I was living with my parents. I think that was the biggest thing was that I stayed that both my partner and I stayed living with our parents, uh, up untilA year ago, a year and a month ago. So I was 27 when I moved out, and that gave me that extra bit of financial flexibility to invest a little bit more of my own money back into the business, as opposed to needing to pull it out for rent, for other staples. Um, the other thing I'll say is that even whenThe business is very successful at first. That's not a guarantee that that success is going to continue. So, you know, when I first had that little bit, that little taste of success, I didn't go out and buy a luxury car immediately. Instead, I kept driving my clunker. It was a 2009, finally got rid of it last year with 242,000 miles, I think, uh, wouldn't pass inspection. So like that was it. There was no, there was no hope for it. Um, but I would have kept driving that thing had it.Kep uh had it lasted, but the car I replaced it with was like an EV that I got the tax incentive. New Jersey had an incentive. I spent less than $20,000 on it. So those little things all add up and allow you to invest more in your business.

So how did you find that constitution? Because for gay men specifically, it's like you got to show up and you got to have all the fancy stuff. I have a fancy car, go on the Amazing vacations. How did you maintain that constitution and not like get to come to that that consumer culture?

I think it stems from my parents who just never really spent a lot of money to begin with. They never went on fancy vacations. They tell me that I spend too much money.

Um, and you think you're penny pinching. Yeah,

so they think the fact that I like pay for the MX Platinum card, they say that that's a waste of money. And I, and I say, you know, like when I travel internationally, I want to be able to go into the lounge because I just can't, you know, and all over Europe, I need a lounge, um.But I grew up with that mentality of really, really saving and putting away, um, and I also watched some of the mistakes that my parents made, um, which was the fact that they really didn't save as much as they should have for retirement, and that they have more than they thought they did, now that it's time for retirement, but I saw that and I said, OK, well, I want to retire early and be done with work because work is fun when it is, but also it's not when you want to be on the beach. So, you know, start.Putting money away and then let it grow over time. Um, so that was, it was really the example of my parents. I'll say also finding a partner who has the same mentality. He actually pinches pennies more than I do, except for the occasional shopping spree.Um,

which is OK, right? indulging indulging yourself from time to time is definitely OK, as long as that doesn't undermine your true purpose of your finances, right?

Yeah, absolutely. So having a partner who has the same mentality because I had past partners who did not have that mentality and it was a total mismatch. So,

so in closing, what's one piece of financial advice you would give to LGBTQ plus people who are listening?

Save, save money and put it away into that retirement account now. Um, the Roth IRA is such a strong tool, and $7000 a year is not that much money. So just get to the max and, you know, over 30 years, what does it come out to on average $1.6 million. That's a lot of money to have come retirement. So, and you start there and then all of a sudden I became addicted to saving.And then all of a sudden you want to save more, yeah, and that I've gamified it now to the point where it's, let's see how much we can put away next year. Wow,

what another great interview.

Yes, it was somewhere along the way. I don't know if it was corporations or those of us in the community. We somehow interpreted that rainbow logos and participating in.Uh, parades was actually a marketing strategy to tap into that $1.4 trillion. If you are a corporation and you truly want to do that, you want to tap into that $1.4 trillion here's the key. You need to do the work. You need to study the demographics and sociographics of our community. You need to create a marketing plan that.Authentically engages the community with products and services that we genuinely need.

Then put dollars behind that marketing plan. And if you're an LGBTQ+ person or ally who's been fortunate enough to make it to the C or ES Suite level, now's the time to decide if you're still a player in the game or if you're now a spectator sitting comfortably in the stand.So thank you for joining us for another episode of Living Not So Fabulously. Catch future episodes of the show every Wednesday at 12 p.m. Eastern Time on Yahoo Finance.com, YouTube or wherever you catch your favorite podcasts.

Rememberto like, subscribe, click that notification button because that's where all the glitter happens, and until next time, stay fabulous.

This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.