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Carry trade unwind 'more important than anything,' even tariffs

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As tariff uncertainty weighs on US stocks (^DJI, ^GSPC, ^IXIC), Great Hill Capital chairman and managing member Thomas Hayes sits down with Brad Smith and Madison Mills to share his take on the current sell-off.

"This is a great opportunity. I mean, sentiment is basically flushed out," Hayes says, noting, "We're in the normal seasonal pattern of a post-election year, which means February is weak [and] early March is weak." He credits this weakness to policy uncertainty.

Hayes tells Yahoo Finance, "The one thing that no one's talking about that I think is more important than anything else is not tariffs; it's actually the unwind of the carry trade, which fueled the most crowded trade in the last few years, which was Mag Seven."

As this trade unwinds, it hits the "Magnificent Seven," made up of Nvidia (NVDA), Alphabet (GOOG, GOOGL), Tesla (TSLA), Microsoft (MSFT), Amazon (AMZN), Meta (META), and Apple (AAPL). It also hits momentum stocks like Palantir (PLTR).

00:00 Speaker A

Stocks continuing to fall after seeing their worst week since September amid mounting growth risks. Joining us now with more, we got Tom Hayes, Great Hill Capital chairman and managing member. And Tom, we've been speaking about whether or not this is a recession risk trade that we're seeing playing out in the markets. Where are you seeing buying opportunities? Are you repositioning at all amid the increased risks?

00:25 Tom Hayes

Yeah, I think this is a great opportunity. I mean, sentiment is basically flushed out. You've seen hedge funds selling in the hole like never before in the last two weeks. They're always a contra-indicator. You've seen retail investors buying more insurance after the house is already half burned down. You want to buy the insurance before the house is burned down. Put put buying is is near record high for retail investors. So we're in the normal seasonal pattern of an election, uh post-election year, which means February is weak, early March is weak. And why is that? It's because of policy uncertainty. It happens every single four years and we don't need good policy, we just need known policy. Uh and once we have known policy, look at earnings, up 18.2% for the last quarter. I think things are actually in a good position. But the one thing that no one's talking about that I think is more important than anything else is not tariffs, it's actually the unwind of the carry trade which fueled the most crowded trade in the last few years, which was Mag 7. And all you need to do is look at 10-year yields of Japanese government bonds and they've gone from zero to 157, that's the highest rate in 20 years, and that was what we call a funding currency that had zero cost of carry, now has a cost of carry. So as that trade unwinds, the hot money is coming out of the Mag 7 and momentum stocks like Palantier, like Nvidia. So.

02:39 Speaker A

Yeah, I was going to ask you what the correlation is to the Mag 7 there. Why why that matters when we see an unwind of the the Yen carry trade and how that ultimately impacts some of the inflows or outflows, I guess, in this case for the Mag 7.

03:00 Tom Hayes

Yeah, you can actually overlay the PE ratio of Microsoft to Japanese government bond yields and you can see as Japanese government bond yields increase, okay, the cost of that capital goes up from zero to a carry cost, the multiple of Microsoft compresses. And that's over long periods of time. So while everyone's talking about tariffs, look, you know, you could look at JGB chart, you could look at tariffs chart. Tariffs chart, we're near 100-year lows in terms of tariffs. And what most people forget, as you hear Holly Smoot every single day on TV, is that they raised tariffs from 1918 to 1929 for 11 consecutive years to levels much higher than anything we're close to right now, and the economy boomed before Holly Smoot, when that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back and coincident with a big sell-off that we all know about. But uh I think there's a lot of runway in terms of tariffs. I I I'm not pro tariffs, but I'd be less concerned with that. I'd be watching that funding currency as it relates to the crowded trades of the Mag 7 and be looking outside of the Mag 7 for opportunities in the US, uh and be looking aggressively in international opportunities.

Hayes says he'll be "watching that funding currency as it relates to the crowded trades in the Mag Seven, and be looking outside of the Mag Seven for opportunities in the US and be looking aggressively in international opportunities."

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This post was written by Naomi Buchanan.