Carly Davenport; Analyst; Goldman Sachs.
Good afternoon and welcome to WEC Energy Group's conference call for fourth quarter and year-end 2024 results. This call is being recorded for rebroadcast (Operator Instructions)
In conjunction with this call, a package of detailed financial information is posted at wecenergygroup.com. A replay will be available approximately two hours after the conclusion of this call.
Before the conference call begins, please note that all statements in the presentation other than historical facts are forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties that are subject to change at any time. Such statements are based on management's expectations at the time they are made.
In addition to the assumptions and other factors referred to in connection with the statements, factors described in WEC Energy Group's latest Form 10-K and subsequent reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission could cause actual results to differ materially from those contemplated. During the discussions, referenced earnings per share will be based on diluted earnings per share, unless otherwise noted.
This call also will include non-GAAP financial information. The company has provided reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in the materials posted on its website for this conference call.
And now it is my pleasure to introduce Scott Lauber, President and Chief Executive Officer of WEC Energy Group.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today as we review our results for calendar year 2024. Here with me are Xia Liu, our Chief Financial Officer; and Beth Straka, Senior Vice President of Corporate Communications and Investor Relations.
As you saw from our news release this morning, we reported full year 2024 adjusted earnings of $4.88 a share. I am pleased to report that we delivered another year of solid results on virtually every meaningful measure, from customer satisfaction to financial performance, to steady execution of our capital plan. In just a few minutes, Xia will provide more details on our financial results and outlook.
For 2025 earnings, recall that in early December, we provided our guidance in the range of $5.17 to $5.27 a share. We continue to target a 6.5% to 7% long-term compound annual growth rate. We have a robust capital plan driven by strong economic growth in our region.
The Wisconsin unemployment rate stands at 3%, continuing a long-running trend below the national average. And as we discussed, there have been many exciting developments along the I-94 corridor between Milwaukee and Chicago.
In December, less than a year after Eli Lilly acquired a facility in Pleasant Prairie, the pharmaceutical company announced plans for a $3 billion expansion. Eli Lilly predicts the expansion will add 750 highly skilled jobs in addition to 2,000 construction jobs to complete the project.
Microsoft is making good progress on its large data center complex in Southeast Wisconsin. Work continues on the first phase of the project. Microsoft took a short pause on construction to evaluate the technical design of the second area. That pause was lifted and work has resumed. Microsoft is still reviewing designs for the third area.
Microsoft reports that the potential design changes have not affected plans to invest $3.3 billion in the project by the end of 2026, and we do not anticipate these changes will impact our capital plan or demand growth projections over the next five years. In fact, Microsoft purchased an additional 240 acres of land just last week for another data center development. We're delighted that Microsoft continues to expand its commitment to the Milwaukee region.
Also in January, Cloverleaf announced plans to develop approximately 1,700 acres in Port Washington, just north of Milwaukee, for another large data center campus. Cloverleaf projects that construction could start this fall. In the initial announcement, Cloverleaf expects the load to be 1 gigawatt. This development is very -- in the very early stages, but all of this load is incremental to our current plan. So we're off to a strong start to the year with great economic prospects.
To serve a growing economy, of course, we need to continue investing in our generation facility and infrastructure. Our $28 billion five-year capital plan, which we updated in October, is the largest in our history. A balanced generation mix is a significant focus for our electric utilities. In the renewable area, over the next five years, we have 4,300 megawatts planned for our expected investment of $9.1 billion. We wrapped up 2024 by bringing the Paris Solar Park into service. With an investment of approximately $319 million, it has added 180 megawatts of solar capacity for our Wisconsin utility customers. Next up on our schedule, we expect the 225-megawatt Darian Solar Park to go into service later this year.
Natural gas also continues to be a critical resource for reliable service. We expect the Wisconsin Commission to make rulings on several major project filings throughout the year. That includes 1,200 megawatts of efficient natural gas generation as well as 33-mile lateral and two Bcf of liquefied natural gas storage.
Turning to our WEC Infrastructure business. The Delilah I and Maple Flats solar project went online at the end of last year. Between those two facilities, we invested approximately $890 million or 90% ownership of 550 megawatts of capacity. And we expect to close on the Harden 3 projects during the first quarter. We plan to invest approximately $407 million for 90% ownership interest of the project, which has a total capacity of 250 megawatts. As a reminder, this project fulfills our five-year planned investment at WEC Infrastructure.
Regarding transmission, as you saw in January, MISO announced capital investments on tranche 2.1. We expect ATC to be assigned approximately $2 billion of that tranche with an additional opportunity through the right of first refusal or competitive bid of up to $1.5 billion to $1.8 billion. As you know, we own 60% of ATC. Overall, we have a lot of confidence in our ability to execute on our capital plan and continue our growth trajectory.
Now turning to the regulatory front. I am pleased to report that we currently have no planned or active rate cases. As you know, the Wisconsin Commission finalized their written orders for test year 2025 and 2026. Consistent with prior disclosures, the commission maintained a 53% financial equity layer and a 9.8% return on equity for our Wisconsin utilities.
In Illinois, we remain actively engaged in two proceedings of note. One of these is evaluating the future of natural gas in Illinois. Currently, it's scheduled to extend into 2026. The other, a review of our Safety Modernization Program, is close to its conclusion. We made our final oral arguments before the Commerce Commission last week and expect a decision this quarter.
Next up, Xia will provide more details on our financials.
Xia Liu
Thanks, Scott. Turning now to earnings. Our 2024 adjusted earnings were $4.88 per share, an increase of $0.25 per share over 2023 adjusted earnings. In 2024, we experienced the warmest winter on record. The estimated weather headwind was $0.25 per share when compared to normal conditions. We were able to offset this by implementing a variety of initiatives, such as O&M and fuel management as well as tax and financing activities. This focus on execution was key for delivering our adjusted EPS near the top end of the earnings guidance.
Now let's take a closer look at our year-over-year variances. Our earnings package includes a comparison of adjusted full year results on page 17. I'll walk through the significant drivers.
Starting with our utility operations. Weather decreased earnings year-over-year by an estimated $0.05 per share. This weather impact, along with a total of $0.38 negative impact related to increases in depreciation and amortization, day-to-day O&M and interest expense, were more than offset by $0.49 of total positive variances from rate base growth, fuel, tax and other. All in all, the utility operations grew $0.06 year-over-year.
Now before I discuss earnings comparison at the other segments, let me briefly comment on O&M and sales. Remember that originally, we guided 2024 total company day-to-day O&M to be 6% to 7% higher compared to 2023 largely driven by assets that were placed in service and normal inflation. As you recall, several of the assets in WEC Infrastructure had a delayed in-service until the end of the year. This, in combination with the initiatives we took after the mild first quarter, helped us achieve an overall increase of 2% over 2023. That is considerably lower than the original guidance.
Regarding our weather-normal sales for 2024, as you can see on pages 13 and 14 in our earnings package, both retail electric and natural gas deliveries in Wisconsin were relatively flat year-over-year. For 2025, we're projecting weather-normal retail electric sales in Wisconsin, excluding the iron ore mine, to grow 0.7%; and retail gas sales in Wisconsin excluding power generation to grow 1.9% from the 2024 level.
Now back to our earnings comparison. Regarding our investment in American Transmission Company, earnings increased $0.07 compared to 2023. We recognized $0.05 in Q4 from the FERC order that resolved certain MISO ROE complaints and set the ROE at 10.48%. The remaining $0.02 improvement in ATC earnings was driven by continued capital investment.
Earnings at our Energy Infrastructure segment grew $0.13 in 2024 compared to 2023. $0.03 were driven by additional investment in our Power the Future plans, and the remaining $0.10 went to WEC Infrastructure.
Finally, you'll see that earnings at our Corporate and Other segment decreased to $0.01. Higher interest expense was substantially offset by tax and other items. Overall, we improved our performance by $0.25 per share on an adjusted basis in 2024.
Next, let's look at our earnings guidance. For the first quarter this year, we project to earn in the range of $2.13 per share to $2.23 per share. This forecast takes into account January weather and assumes normal weather for the rest of the quarter. Remember, last year, we earned $1.97 per share in the first quarter. And as Scott stated, for the full year 2025, we are reaffirming our annual guidance of $5.17 to $5.27 per share.
Finally, some comments on financing. In 2024, we successfully executed over $4.5 billion of external funding, including almost $200 million of common equity. In 2025, consistent with previous disclosures, we expect to issue $700 million to $800 million of common equity via our ATM program as well as the dividend reinvestment and employee benefit plans. Including this, as a reminder, total common equity financing over the next five years is still expected to be between $2.7 billion and $3.2 billion.
Going forward, to support the region's strong economic growth and our capital investment, we continue to expect any incremental capital will be funded with 50% equity content. Overall, we are confident in our long-term EPS growth CAGR of 6.5% to 7%.
With that, I'll turn it back to Scott.
Scott Lauber
Thank you, Xia. Now as you may have seen, our Board in its January meeting increased the dividend by 6.9% to an annualized $3.57 per share. This will mark the 22nd consecutive year that our shareholders will be rewarded with higher dividends. The increase is consistent with our policy of paying out 65% to 70% of our earnings in dividends. Overall, we are on track and focused on providing value for our customers and our stockholders.
Operator
(Operator Instructions)
Shahriar Pourreza, Guggenheim Partners.
Shahriar Pourreza
Scott, surprisingly a couple of data center questions for you. First, I just want -- Scott particularly, I just want to touch on the recent Cloverleaf data center announcement. It looks like it's a 1,000-acre campus in Port Washington. There's been some local headlines have kind of indicated that there's been pushback from the constituencies on and some of the local, obviously, ratepayers. Could we just get a status there? What's the timing expectations? How many megawatts is the project expected to be? And would this be incremental to your current plan?
Scott Lauber
Sure. Absolutely. So they announced the plan up in Port Washington, which is just north of Milwaukee. And our understanding, it's about 1,700 acres, so a little over the 1,000. There was an announcement at one time being 1,000, but I think they're up to 1,700 acres now.
And right now, the initial look -- and in their initial announcement, they talked about a gigawatt of additional, which would be all incremental to our plan. I think there's -- it's early stages yet. So 1,700 acres provides a lot of opportunities. And my understanding is at Port Washington and the city of Port Washington has been very, very constructive and positive on the development. So we're excited about it. I think Cloverleaf is excited about it, and it looks like a good opportunity for all of us.
Shahriar Pourreza
Got it. And then just -- sorry, Scott, this -- any opportunity will be incremental to the current plan?
Scott Lauber
Correct, correct. So that 1,800 megawatts that we talked about in our current five-year plan, that never contemplated any of this that was just announced. And when we wait until the customers make an announcement, like I said before, we've talked to a lot of data centers and other developers. But as they make announcements, that's when we'll first start rolling them into our plan. We'll take time now as we go through the plan and working with them this summer on when does that stage throughout the five-year plan and into the future five-year capital.
Shahriar Pourreza
Got it. Perfect. And just touching on just some of the recent Microsoft news. There's obviously been reports and we're seeing it. They're acquiring more land in Wisconsin. So it looks like it's full speed ahead. Obviously, the DeepSeek headlines have caused some confusion around US spending opportunities, and then there's Stargate. Are you seeing any sort of impacts in either direction with the Microsoft spending opportunities or trajectory? So just any kind of visibility there? And is there any update on the tariff negotiations?
Scott Lauber
Sure. So in the Microsoft, in fact, I was listening to the Microsoft conference call to get intel on what their DeepSeek and other conference calls about it. And everything I've heard is, if AI becomes more efficient, more people will use it and the demand is going to still be there. So we also -- internally, when we saw DeepSeek and other discussions about that, we reached out to data centers, and even the discussion that happened in Cloverleaf is after the DeepSeek. So all our capacity plans and all our growth plans, there's still no changes there. So that's been all very positive.
What we have seen, and just to be very clear, there was an two area there in the Microsoft project that was paused. The one area has been released of the pause, design issues that they're looking at. And then the other area still being reviewed on design items that they're looking at, I think it has to deal with looking at a closed-loop water system. So that we expect to get more information on that in the next couple of months. So all moving forward there.
We're actively working with these large -- very large customers on tariffs. We expect something probably in the next six months that we'll be filing with them. But we're all aligned on what we need to do in order to be fair on cost allocation, and they all agree they need to pay their fair share. So more to come but all positive.
Operator
Bill Appicelli, UBS.
Bill Appicelli
Just going -- a little bit expanding on the incremental demand that you're seeing. I mean, as we look across the 1,800 megawatts you guys outlined back in Q4, can you just remind us of what the generation capacity looks like? And when you factor in the combustion turbines and some of the stuff that's in the current plan, I mean, where does that get you in terms of net length in the system relative to what may be another wave of incremental demand from -- maybe from Cloverleaf or from additional Microsoft development?
Scott Lauber
Sure. And as we put our five-year plan together last fall with the 1,800 megawatts in the Southeastern Wisconsin region, which is all the great economic development going on in the region in addition to Microsoft, we are looking at the generation plan and the MISO rules and really building to what we need for capacity to support the MISO rules and the economic development. So there's not excess capacity out there. This would all be incremental support that we need for reliable capacity. So that will be reflected in our updated capital plans going forward.
Bill Appicelli
Okay. Right. So if projects like Cloverleaf were to come to fruition and the Microsoft expansion, that would likely need to be supported by additional generation investments?
Scott Lauber
That is correct. And a lot of these investments are looking for a mix of not just reliable gas capacity, but also renewables in a generation mix like we lay out at our plants.
Bill Appicelli
Okay. And then, I mean, how quickly can that be developed? I mean there's a lot of talk in the market about just the lead times for putting in additional generation capacity and whether or not that syncs up with sort of the development profiles or time lines of some of the data centers and large load customers.
Scott Lauber
That's a good question because a lot of people have plans, and everyone wants to do it very fast. When you look at to develop a data center starting with a farm field along with the transmission and the generation, it could take three to four years to get there. That's why we're working hand in glove with the American Transmission Company to continue to grow and what we need to do to deliver.
Bill Appicelli
Okay. And then just lastly, on the system modernization program hearings last week, I guess, what should we make of the decision when we get it? I mean, does that have any impact on the gas CapEx outlook in the more near term? Or do we need to see what the future of natural gas proceeding kind of yields before we can make any longer-term capital decisions?
Scott Lauber
Sure. And just to give you a little color, what we currently have in our plan is approximately $90 million annually to support facility relocates for like the city of Chicago or any key reliability or safety issues that we need to address. So it's about $90 million.
In our filings, we talked about in order to get back to a plan, that would take up to about $300 million of capital. Now remember, the decision will come, we expect, in February. It will kind of gauge what's going off of their decision, but it takes a while to ramp up because remember, we were told to pause and stop all activity and reduce that spending. So we have to put more contracts in place, go through the permitting, go through the engineering, all of that. So it takes a while to ramp up. But we'll see what comes out of that decision in February. We expect it in February, March.
Operator
Durgesh Chopra, Evercore ISI.
Durgesh Chopra
Just to start off, any updates on Point Beach? I know you were kind of talking with next year. Are there any updates there since we last spoke?
Scott Lauber
No. There really hasn't been any updates. And just so everyone recalls, the contracted Point Beach, the first lease ends in 2030. And the PPA -- the second PPA ends in 2033. So it's not it's not a fire drill that we're actively at it. And you could -- we've been busy with a lot of stuff. And I think you can tell, Dextera's been busy on a lot of stuff, so it hasn't been on the front burner for all of us. I expect we'll have more information in the first half of the year.
Durgesh Chopra
That's perfect. And then maybe just a big question. With these tariffs, how should we, us and investors, think about implications to Wisconsin? And just broadly, utilities is -- it seems like these China tariffs are in effect right now. We're not sure how long they'll last. But how are you thinking through all of this?
Scott Lauber
Well, we're watching them very closely, as you can imagine. And the China tariffs could affect us somewhat when you think about some of the solar projects we have and some of the sourcing that's needed. But once again, it's not a large part of the solar projects. So we think it's very manageable where they're currently at.
And the tariffs that we -- potentially out of Canada and Mexico, we are watching very closely also along with the cost of gas. But even with the cost of gas, when you're watching it at a 10% tariff, that was moving that gas cost from $3 to $3.30. And that's a small portion of the gas supply that we have. And we saw the gas prices move a lot faster with just some cold weather coming across. So we think it's going to be manageable, but we're watching it very closely.
Operator
Carly Davenport, Goldman Sachs.
Carly Davenport
You mentioned before renewable capacity as being part of what is being considered by some of these large load customers. I guess, do you see any implications from new policy priorities post inauguration that could potentially impact the cadence of your capital investment in renewables?
Scott Lauber
There's a potential, and we're evaluating all of that as we see what goes on with the administration and the tariffs and production tax credits. However, I do think the production -- the PTCs will continue, and they won't just be phased out immediately. I think there's a longer-term benefit for a lot of people, a lot of construction jobs, a lot of value for our customers. So I'm not anticipating big changes there, but of course, all of us, including the large customers, are watching it. But at this time, I don't see any issues on the horizon.
Carly Davenport
Got it. Great. That's helpful. And then maybe just a housekeeping item. Just with the O&M coming in lower in 2024 versus your expectations, any color that you can prevent on how we should think about the year-over-year impacts for O&M looking to 2025?
Scott Lauber
Sure. And I'll let -- and remember, there's a lot of this because of individual projects didn't come into service. And a lot of new projects are coming online in 2025, but Xia has pulled together some analysis. I'll let her walk you through it.
Xia Liu
Yeah. Carly, so over -- remember, '24 came in about 5% less than what we originally forecasted. And some of that is short-term initiatives to offset the mild heating season, and some of that is delayed of capital put in service. So we need to restore that kind of run rate, first of all. And on top of that, we have new projects we will put in service this year.
And also, in the current -- the last rate cases in Wisconsin, the commission approved some increase in reliability spending, particularly for vegetation management. If you add all those moving pieces, it could be a relatively bigger growth year-over-year, but it's all driven by the factors I mentioned already.
Carly Davenport
Got it. And when you say higher relative growth year-over-year, are you talking about in reference to the original guidance for '24 or where you actually ended up coming in?
Xia Liu
When compared to original guidance, it's pretty normal. But if you compare to what 2024 came in, I don't know, 8%, 10% growth year-over-year.
Operator
Julien Dumoulin-Smith, Jefferies.
Julien Dumoulin-Smith
Just a couple of cleanup items here, following up. First, on -- in Illinois, I want to come back to it because that staff recommendation for option 3 at $7.19 billion. That was a big number. Obviously, you put in a fairly modest plan here. How much of a doubt is there versus what you guys have reflected? I mean I just -- again, I get that apples-to-apples is difficult to discern at times, but how would you characterize that as far as the comparison?
Scott Lauber
Sure. And to get up to that staff number -- because they even said we should maybe do it at the same pace or even a little bit faster. To get up to that staff number, we'd have to ramp up to $300 million to maybe $350 million a year in the short term and then go higher than that as you get through it just the -- factored in just different inflation and stuff. So we'll see where that goes, but that would be $200 million to a little over $200 million more than what's annually more than what's in our plan.
Julien Dumoulin-Smith
Got it. All right. Thanks for trying to reconcile. I know it's tricky on the fly here. And then just going back to -- I know there's been a lot of focus on the data stuff, but I just want to make sure I got this right here. Do we know the quantum of megawatts? I thought it was like a 3-gigawatt number out there with Cloverleaf. Do we have any sense of timing at all on the ramp?
And similarly, for Phase 3, what would be contemplated on ramp? I just want to make sure I have a sense from you. Which you were to get details here, the quantum of gigawatts and especially the ramp rate and would this be ready for like some updates this year? Or it sounds like maybe that's not a '25 event in as much as it could take some time to come together on those incremental issues.
Scott Lauber
Sure. And Cloverleaf, it is a tremendously nice site. It's a great opportunity. And in our prepared remarks, we said 1 gigawatt. I have heard that it could be significantly larger, like you mentioned. I anticipate that if things continue to move as they have that we could start seeing some construction perhaps this fall even. But that ramp rate then to actually get to energy flowing probably would take three to four years, I would imagine, to flow substantial amounts, so probably in that '28 or '29 time frame. But we're working with them and working with American Transmission Company to provide services as fast as they can -- they need it.
Julien Dumoulin-Smith
Got it. And Phase 3 is a similar dynamic that -- maybe the punchline is, would you expect there to be kind of a tangible update by the end of this year kind of in your normal course or -- just to set expectations today.
Scott Lauber
Absolutely. I think there'll be more of an update at the end of this year, absolutely, with our updated five-year plan.
Operator
Andrew Weisel, Scotiabank.
Andrew Weisel
My first question -- and you might have just been alluding to this a moment ago, but I was wondering when we get the next updates to the long-term spending plan. You typically give those in November, I know, but you've already mentioned $2 billion of MISO transmission spending with maybe almost $2 billion more to come soon, the Cloverleaf spending adding more incremental CapEx and possibly some other needs. Should we expect to hear anything between now and November? Or would we wait till the -- later in the year for your goal timing?
Scott Lauber
Sure. That's a great question. And just to set expectations, I anticipate it will be in that October, November time frame, and here's why. The American transmission growth that we're talking about 2.1, that's most likely in that '28-'29, more in the '29-'30 and past time frame, so later out further. So it will affect this five-year plan as much.
And then as you think about these additional megawatt-hour sales potential, as we said, it will take a while to ramp up, probably later in the five-year plan. And we'll pull all those plans together right now. So it's not like it's really going to affect dramatically in '25 or '26 or '27, probably.
Andrew Weisel
Okay. Great. And then I guess similar question on the regulatory front. You obviously just completed your two-year rate case in Wisconsin, but you'll probably need to make some important investment decisions sooner than the next rate cases. So you made the comment about a quiet regulatory calendar, but how do we juxtapose that with a very busy environment with economic development?
Scott Lauber
Sure. That is a very good question. And we have -- from a rate case perspective, it's very quiet. From a Wisconsin perspective, as we have significant number of projects at the commission right now for approval -- so I think we have close to $5 billion of projects sitting at the commission between the gas generation, which includes CTs and rice units, gas lateral, the LNG plant that we put in service to have that additional reliability plus solar, wind and some battery capacity. There's a lot of projects at the commission to get approval.
When they get approval, they get approved, which we anticipate some of the gas turbines to get approved by probably in the second or third quarter, we'll start construction. And during that period, we're really incurring or earning AFUDC on those projects, and then they'll go into future rates and probably future rate cases. It takes a while to build. So we do have a very busy schedule getting approval on projects.
Andrew Weisel
Okay. Great. That's really helpful. And one last one. At WEC Infrastructure, I believe you've now completed all of your planned spending for the five-year outlook. So first question, am I correct that 2025 will still have some earnings growth, thanks to the recently completed projects? And then second, how do you think about your appetite for incremental regulated projects? You obviously have a ton of utility opportunities. How do you think about the opportunity for more stuff at WEC E?
Scott Lauber
Sure. And you described it very well. We've had two projects that came in the end of last year. One, we expect to close -- the next one, we expect to close in the first quarter this year. So there's incremental, which include incremental production tax credits.
But you hit the nail on the head. We have so much growth in Wisconsin and American Transmission Company that right now, we don't have anything in our plans for that WEC Infrastructure. I'll never say never, but right now, we really don't have any plans in that infrastructure because we have so much to execute within the utilities.
Operator
Michael Sullivan, Wolfe Research.
Michael Sullivan
Scott, I wanted to go back to just the sales growth conversation. I think given everything seems on track with maybe even upward bias. I think you're pointing to just shy of a 1% growth on the electric side this year. Are we going to get into that like 4.5%, 5% range by next year? Is that still a fair assumption to work with?
Scott Lauber
Yes. And Xia has looked at that. We're slowly going to start to see some ramp up. But really, the big stuff goes into service in 2026. Xia, any other --
Xia Liu
No. I think that's it. And embedded in that 0.7% growth is the LC&I growth, which is about 1.9%, Michael. So that's a good, nice ramp-up from where we landed in 2024. And I mean, everybody is focused on data centers, but we really have really good growth across all the 16 sectors that we track. Just to give you a sense, 11 of the 16 sectors last year had positive or relatively flat growth by the end of 2024. So we feel really good about the forecast for '25. And we think the 4.5% to 5% will be reached maybe in the, I don't know, late 2026 time frame.
Michael Sullivan
Okay. Very helpful. Appreciate the color there. And then switching back to the ATC side of things, just the upside potential beyond the $2.1 billion. When would you anticipate getting some clarity on that, whether it be competitive bids or the ROFR option?
Scott Lauber
Sure. And the ROFR option, American Transmission Company is working with the legislature to hopefully get something adopted or proposed and hopefully approved in this quarter or this first half of the year. And then I think if there's a bidding option, I think those bids will be required. If we don't get the ROFR, those bids are required probably in the first half of this year, too. So more would come in the next couple -- next year or so here.
Now when we look at the ROFR, and the ROFR -- when you're in Wisconsin and you have the ROFR, it's a great investment for our -- for American Transmission Company. But it also -- when you look at the cost and how it's allocated, it's a good investment also for our Wisconsin customers. It saves money for them too. So we think there's a great opportunity for the ROFR in Wisconsin.
Operator
Jeremy Tonet, JPMorgan.
Jeremy Tonet
Just a real quick one for me, right? I was thinking with regards to your experience with the RICE engines there. We hear a lot about speed to market these days. Do you think your experience RICE be at utility or WEC E would offer you kind of the ability to give a differentiated service as it relates to speed to market?
Scott Lauber
Well, that's a good question. And we have the RICE units in our plan. We've got three sites of RICE units up and running, very happy with the RICE units. And we have a combination of RICE units along with CTs. So we look at it kind of an all of the above and how do we grow our generation to be reliable, and RICE units is part of the complement.
I don't know -- I think it's good to have them part of our mix, but I don't know if we'd just go 100% with RICE units or CT. So it's been a combination. So they're very good, and they've been very effective for us as we've been using them in our load here for a couple of years now.
Jeremy Tonet
Got it. That's helpful. And I might have missed it earlier, if you touched on it already, sorry. But any thoughts on OpenAI's CFO mentioning Wisconsin as a possible data center site in -- beyond Microsoft? Could you walk us through your ability to accommodate if you do get more of these -- more people coming in?
Scott Lauber
Sure. And like I said, our development people are talking all the time with potential opportunities. And we work with them and kind of lay out the game plan. You need to get transmission. But in order to get orders in and stuff, you'd need to design purchase cancellation agreements to protect our core customers. So we're working with a variety of people. So potentially, there's even more out there, but we just got to get into the queue and lay out a game plan with them. So there's always more potential.
Jeremy Tonet
Got it. Quick last one, if I could. With all this hitting in the back end of the plan, how do you think this might impact the CAGR?
Scott Lauber
We're going to put all that together this summer as we look at our fall here. And we'll update that -- and whatever we decide to do, they will come on our third quarter call.
Operator
Paul Fremont, Ladenburg.
Paul Fremont
Quick question of clarification for the -- sort of for the Microsoft pause. My understanding is that the closed-loop design is also being used in Arizona. Is the pause Wisconsin-specific? Or is it more generic to all of their facilities that are going to use the closed-loop design?
Scott Lauber
Well, I don't know the specifics of what's going on, on the other projects. I did read that their projects going forward, new projects, including Arizona and Mount Pleasant, will pilot zero-water evaporating designs in 2026. So I can't speak to the other projects in Microsoft area. I know ours is a -- Xia is here, and they've already started one of the sites backup. It's just the one that's on a pause still.
Paul Fremont
Great. And then just a quick question on sort of any comments on the NextEra-GE Renova partnership and what impact that might have on the availability of gas turbines as you move out into the future?
Scott Lauber
That's a good question. And what we have in our 5-year plan, we have already sites to that generation. And we'll see what the demand is as we continue to work with our large customers in for '29, '30, '31. I mean there's no doubt that GE has probably ramped up their supply and their ability also to deliver more units. So we'll see where it goes.
Xia Liu
Paul, the good news for us is our current CTs and generation plan in the five-year plan, we already signed the contract. So we're ready to move right now for this phase.
Operator
Paul Patterson, Glenrock Associates.
Paul Patterson
Just a few quick questions. So on -- in Illinois, when you guys had your gas case, there was an Amarin gas case that was kind of at the same time. And they've gotten an order from the appeals court that reversed some of the denials or -- denials and what have you. And I was wondering how you felt how that -- if that has any impact on your thoughts regarding the gas situation with respect to your S&P or your other -- or your -- or I think you guys also appealed your gas case or -- if I'm not wrong, if there's any maybe carry over there that you might be thinking about.
Scott Lauber
Sure. That's a good question. And I did see where some of those repeals were sent back to the commission. And we also have appealed our rate case order specifically as it related to some of our service center facilities that were denied 100% and other aspects of the case. We'll see where our appeals go.
As it relates to the S&P, I think we'll -- I think our record was very clear. It's needed for reliability, it's needed for safety. There's a lot of hypes in the city of Chicago. In fact, we're working on one back from 1861. So I think the facts of the case are going to drive it as the S&P for what we'll see in the next quarter here. The appeal, we'll see where the court goes with our appeal. I think it's in a different circuit, but it's somewhat positive to see an appeal at Amarin want a few of them to go back to the commission.
Paul Patterson
Okay. And then finally, just a bookkeeping. On the extinguishment of debt, what are your expectations going forward on what kind of opportunities might be there with respect to that category?
Xia Liu
Well, we've been using that as a -- I don't know, it's not in the plan, but we try to be opportunistic. Last December, when we extinguished some of the debt, we were able to realize some gain but really also kind of neutral for 2025. So we want to be flexible. And if if you have a really bad year in weather or something, that could be a tool for us to consider. And so -- but it's not in the base plan.
Scott Lauber
And we'll have to also see what the markets at that time.
Xia Liu
Exactly.
Paul Patterson
Okay. And the opportunities are being driven pretty much by interest rates. Is that how we should think about it? Or is there anything else something unusual that doesn't come to mind?
Xia Liu
We'll see, market conditions, interest rates and everything around it.
Scott Lauber
Thank you. Well, that concludes our conference call for today. Thank you for participating. If you have any more questions, feel free to contact Beth Straka at (414) 221-4639.
Operator
And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call, and we thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
