Yahoo Finance

Question and Answer Session

Operator

(Operator Instructions) Tejas Savant, Morgan Stanley.

Tejas Savant

Hey guys, good evening and congrats on closing the Ambry transaction. Eric, just one question there for me, one of the benefits you'd highlighted in terms of bringing Ambry in-house is that it gives you a West Coast lab.
So what time frame could we see you bring some of your somatic workflows? That location and then Jim, on the seasonality in the Ambry business, how should we think about what's contemplated in the guide? Obviously, just two months of contribution here in one queue, so there will be a mathematical rant. But beyond that, anything to think about in terms of seasonality through the year.

Eric Lefkofsky

Yes, so I can start. So, Ambry does give us a West Coast lab for those, you may not recall, we have labs in Chicago, Raleigh, North Carolina, and Atlanta. So now with the acquisition of Ambry, we pick up a lab out west. Over time, we will look to have our somatic or CGP assays or comprehensive profiling assays run out of their lab.
We'll look to bring some of their inherited risk assays into our labs. But there's no immediate plans to do that, in the next few quarters. It's more of a longer-term initiative to make sure we have appropriate redundancy operating out of all of our big las labs across the country. We're fortunate that Tempus already has that in place today between Chicago and Raleigh.
So we built a lot of that redundancy, both in terms of operating workflows, in case one lab has a problem or something goes down, also we benefit from some of the reimbursement diversity of having those two labs and the California lab of Ambry will give us additional redundancy and additional benefits. So I would say over the next year or two, we'll look to start moving some of those assays and cross-pollinating.

Jim Rogers

Yeah, and then I'll take the second question with regards to seasonality of the Ambry business. I think, they experience the same seasonality that we do with our business and other labs typically around the holidays things slow down.
I would say that given where they're at in terms of kind of capturing market share as well as kind of growing the rare and undiagnosed business, we would anticipate kind of revenues growing throughout the year, similar to what they do in kind of the Tempus. So there is some seasonality, but we would just anticipate revenues continuing to grow kind of quarter after quarter, no different than the Tempus business.

Tejas Savant

Got it. And then a quick follow up on the data side of things. In your prepared remarks, you guys flagged one data delivery project, I think that slipped out of the quarter. Can you just quantify the impact and was that a customer delay. And Jim, on that note, what exactly is the data contribution that you're baking into '25 into your guide? Should we think of that as a safe number that's essentially de-risked, or is there any sensitivity depending on pharma budgets, particularly for the smaller customers who haven't signed those strategic longer-term contracts with you?

Eric Lefkofsky

Yeah, so I'll start with the first, so you know we had a fairly large data delivery, north of $10 million, that we could have pushed to get out potentially in Q4, but the natural kind of timing of that is the early part of this year. And I was just referencing it because it's not that the client had an issue where we had an issue where there was any issue.
It's just that in every quarter when you get to our size and you have, a data business this large, there are timing of these delivery of these data sets that can slip a month here, a month there. They can get pushed up into a quarter, they can get pushed back into a quarter, and so we always have puts and takes and I was just highlighting.
And if that date delivery would have gone out in Q4, we would have -- you can add a significant amount of revenue to Q4. So it would have been, that's why I also said when we talk about $700 million of revenue, it could be $693 million, it could be $706 million, and most of that has nothing to do with the performance of the business or what's going well. It can just be the timing of when tests are ordered or when data is delivered.
And then the second part of your question around kind of the '25 guide and kind of where the contribution from data is. I'd say, the $940 million of total remaining contract value obviously gives us good visibility into 2025. The larger agreements have kind of committed spend in those larger subscriptions get delivered kind of quarterly. The smaller agreements, there's always some subset of those that get signed and delivered in the year, but the majority is under contract, as you go into '25.

Tejas Savant

Got it. That's helpful. I appreciate the time.

Operator

Rachel Vatnsdal, JPMorgan.

Great, thank you. This is Casey on for Rachel. Just had one on the new guide for 2025. When backing into the math, it looks like Ambry is now an implied 17%, top-line growth rate if keeping core Tempus at 30%. So you just help us walk through kind of how we should think about Ambry in the model in 2025 and then have one follow up. Thanks.

Eric Lefkofsky

Yeah, I mean, so we've historically said and you can see this in the commentary that Jim and I provided that Ambry benefited in 2024 from some ASP headwinds and some fluctuations in the market related to competitors where a lot of volume was moving to their direction.
Now, they also have a best-in-class product that has been outgrowing the market anyway, so they were going to grow nicely, but they had a couple of things in 2024 that were accelerants to their growth rate. And so in 2025, as they lap those accelerants, you could see a growth rate that might be normally in the kind of low-20s, be in the high-10s.
And so we've talked about that last quarter and suspect that could be the case now. Some of us we'll see how the year plays out but we are, as we've said, historically forecasting core temp is to be closer to 30%. Ambry in the high-10s, and you're, whether it's 17% or 19% or whatever, like somewhere in this, in that direction, and I suspect that's how things will play out unless there's more accelerants that come their way.

Got it. That's helpful. And then just as a quick follow up. You mentioned 20% of revenues will fall in one queue. I understand you have the ADLT percentage of volume kind of growing over the course of the year and other reimbursement tailwinds. Can you just maybe walk us through the quarterly phasing of the guide and maybe what the exit rate looks like? Thank you.

Jim Rogers

Yeah, so Q4 is always a very big data delivery quarter for us as we kind of talked about. And so as you get into Q1 is always kind of in terms of percentage of overall revenue in the year, the lowest, and so this what we've got it is consistent with what we've seen in previous years.
Specific to ADLT status again in the commentary that we provided, we'll end the quarter at about 20% of our -- we expect to end their quarter with about 20% of our XT volume moving over to ADLT. So as we've highlighted in the past, kind of the national launch started in January, but it will take kind of the balance of the year and in the next year until we have the vast majority of that test on ADLT on the ADLT version.
So, we got it to the 20% of the revenues in Q1, and we would anticipate a some more kind of phasing is what we saw last year.

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Mike Ryskin, Bank of America.

Mike Ryskin

Great, thanks for taking my question, guys. I want to follow up really quick to Casey's point right there on Ambry's contribution. I just want to get a little deeper into sort of how you think about the model longer term. I mean, you talked about what it was contributing to grow or what it grew in 2024 and some of those accelerants like we just discussed sort of like now it looks like it's high-10s in 2025.
I think you just made some comment of you see the longer term as a 20% growth or I just want to make sure I caught that correctly, just how we flesh it out in our model of 206 and beyond just you talk about what you see the business doing longer term. And I've got a follow up. Thanks.

Eric Lefkofsky

Yeah, I think, I would suspect we've told people that kind of long-term growth rate for Tempus, you should think of us, we're growing a business long term of 25%, that's a perfectly solid growth rate. But we don't -- we're more focused on long-term sustainable growth, then we are focused on maximizing short-term growth.
So you'll see us make that trade all the time. If we can do things that we feel are sustainable and durable, we choose that path instead of kind of picking up a bunch of growth in the current quarter that isn't durable. I think interestingly enough, you, we -- and we've seen some of that this year where I think again in some of Jim's commentary, you talk about lapping a period where maybe we have some ASP, some cash collections in 2023 that we had to lap in 2024.
So you get some of these anomalies where your growth rates can bounce around a bit and we're still, even at our size, this isn't a $100 billion business where these fluctuations don't make a difference. So at our size, if you pick up an extra $20 million or $30 million of revenue and then you lap that, it can cause some issues.
But I would suspect long term you'll see average growth rate and our growth rate, probably in terms of the genomics business, be pretty similar. I think these things can grow at 25% for a sustainable amount of time. I think the data business and the app's business can grow a bit faster.
The core Tempus may be benefited by our data and our AI applications that obviously can grow much quicker or can grow quicker. But in terms of core genomics, I think the comprehensive genomic profiling and therapy selection, the minimal residual disease, and the inherited risk profiling, these are still businesses with huge amounts of growth.
I mean, there's no, there -- I believe that many people, if not most people will be profiled for risk in the future. And the fact that Ambry is a leader in that space, you can do the math, in a world where many people are profiled or most people are profiled, you're quoting numbers in the hundreds of billions -- I'm sorry, in the hundreds of millions, and today they're running a fraction of those tests. So I think they have a lot of headroom and I would suspect their growth rates will start to over time be similar to ours.

Mike Ryskin

Okay, all right, and then, for the follow up a little bit, I want to touch on the data side of things. One is you kind of talked about the total contract value some of your remarks, like $940 million, is where you ended the year. It sort of was, has been at that ballpark all year in the low $900 million of $920 million, $930 million, $940 million.
So we've always kind of thought of that as a leading indicator of growth. How should we think about that going forward? I mean, there are some remarks in the in the prepared remark text that you actually kind of expect it to decline in the future given it's a large number, but yeah, I mean just why shouldn't that be an indicator of future, revenue growth, so, wouldn't you like to see that number grow higher?

Jim Rogers

Yeah. So I'll start in then you can come in. I say the number did grow higher throughout the course of the year and we also kind of grew the amount of revenue that came out of that was at a record level as well. And so any growth in that number when you're kind of achieving kind of the rev revenue growth that we saw, you'd be very happy with.
The way that we kind of view the total remaining contract value is it at a healthy enough level to kind of give you some visibility into the next several years of revenue and at the level that it's that, given the amount of revenue that we recognize in a given year, it provides that that level of visibility. As we've previously kind of talked about, when we get kind of larger deals, then that can result in some fluctuation of those and you don't sign kind of very large deals every single quarter.
We highlighted some of the larger deals that we signed in the quarter with BI and Alumina, and again, we think that it's at a very healthy level for us to achieve the targets that we're looking to achieve.

Eric Lefkofsky

Yeah, and the punch line is it's lumpy, right? So the fact that it's growing. And the fact that our net revenue retention is so high means the core business is really strong, right? I mean, in simple terms, if you've got about a billion dollars of total contract value and you and you deliver $250 million in a year to have the number grow, you had to basically sign more than that.
So that's awesome. But yes, I mean in a perfect world, you'd like it to grow by your growth rate. So if you think of it like, yeah, we had, if it doesn't -- if our growth rate is such that you have to basically resign all the data you delivered plus another, let's say whatever, 30%, then maybe you'd want it to grow by $75 million and it only grew by $30 million right?
But it's still, so you might say, well, I wish it grew by $30 million or $40 million more, but you have almost a billion dollars dollar buffer in your data business. So, it's going to be lumpy. You're going to have some years. We might sign a $200 million dollar deal for, and it's going to jump right up again. It's not going to grow perfectly every quarter. It's not going to grow perfectly every year.
So we look at it and say the fact that we're ending the year and we've got more in the tank than when we started and we just, took almost a quarter billion out of the tank means it's super healthy. But long term, you're going to want it to measure -- manage your growth rate.

Mike Ryskin

All right, thanks. I'll get back in the queue.

Operator

Ryan MacDonald.

Ryan MacDonald

And for Ryan, thanks for taking the questions. Nice to see the formal announcement around being an in-network provider for various Blue Cross Blue Shield plans. Would love to unpack that a bit. What kind of impact do you anticipate going in-network to have on volume and maybe more importantly, would love to get a refresher on what that does from a reimbursement perspective.

Jim Rogers

Yeah, so I'd say, the announcement that we made about going in network with folks is a reminder we're primarily an out of network lab with commercial payers. Medicare and Medicare Advantage represent about 50% of our volume, so about a little bit less than half is commercial payers. So any win that we can get with commercial payers is obviously an uplift to, reimbursements.
We don't have a significant concentration among commercial payers, so no one payer if we go in network. Materially, changes the reimbursement profile. However, chipping away at that 45% or so of commercial volume is important long term as we'd like to drive ASPs up. So the biggest ASP tailwinds as we get in 2025 are migrating volume over the ADLT version of the essay, which will primarily kind of impact Medicare and Medicare Advantage volume, although that's some commercial volume as well.
And then for xF or liquid biopsy, that was going through the gapfill process with Medicare last year that resulted in about a $300 uplift in reimbursement from Medicare. And so again, another kind of tailwind that we'll have in 2025 that impacts about 50% of our volume. The smaller wins on the commercial side impact the smaller.

Ryan MacDonald

Got. It. That's helpful, Jim. And then maybe on the regulatory environment, there's been a lot of changes at the FDA or proposed changes, some of which could be favorable for AI companies, but also a lot of layoffs that could potentially delay decision making or trial approvals. So based on what we've seen today and where you sit.

Eric Lefkofsky

You see what's going on at the FDA or in the broader federal government as more of a headwind or a tailwind to Tempus. I think it's for us it's generally a headwind. I mean, we are AI-enabled diagnostics company that is focused on technology and so, I'm sorry, it's a tailwind, meaning it's a benefit. So for us, we think we benefit as a tech company, as somebody focused on AI.
These kinds of changes are generally trying to figure out how to get more efficiency, more technology, and we think we benefit from that kind of thinking. There could be some minor slowdowns related to staffing as people are let go in the FDA, but we don't expect them to be material and, we're not reliant on any kind of FDA rulings coming out that would change our business. So net, we think it's tailwind.

Ryan MacDonald

Got it. Thanks, guys.

Operator

Dan Brennan, TD Cowen.

Dan Brennan

Great, thanks for thanks for the questions. I know there's a question or two on the data side, but I was just hoping implicit in the guide. So if we're thinking about core Tempus growing 30, presumably we have that level in our model, but we've got data growing in kind of the mid-30s plus with the genomics organic growing in the mid-20s. Does that sound like the right zip code or if not, can you help us think through what the right levels of growth for those two businesses are?

Jim Rogers

Yeah, I think that's largely lied. I think on the genomic side, obviously you have some ASP tailwinds, so we would anticipate, revenues outpacing kind of volume growth in data as it has, this year as well, kind of growing, slightly more quickly than the genomics. So I think you're on track.

Dan Brennan

Got it. And then just maybe on the margin guy, the $5 million margin, which is good. Can you just help break down a little bit in terms of core Ambry versus the core Tempus business and are there any synergies assumed in order to get to that number and kind of what would be some of the drivers if you were to beat that number in '25?

Eric Lefkofsky

Yeah, I mean, so we've considered it, as we talked about historically, we've considered it a goal to get to being adjusted even on cash flow positive. So we've been focused on that and, when we think about the investments we make in the forward year, we've been making investments, predicated on this idea that our revenue is growing at X level, our gross profits growing at X level.
We can invest this amount in technology, R&D, people, all that good stuff, and we want to generate improvement in the bottom line such that we can, flip to being positive. We're, fortunate that we are about to make that flip, so that's awesome. And our guide for 2025 implies that we're clearly there, but we're not focused in the near term on like harvesting profits or maximizing profits.
So to the extent that we are beating EBITDA, you'll likely see us in the near term invest more in growth. And certainly for 2025, that'll be the story. We're not going to look to like crush that number because we can. If we're crushing the number, we're going to make investments, at least for, some large extent, back in the business and back into the growth.

Jim Rogers

And then Dan, on your question around synergies in the guide, no significant synergies kind of built in there, we anticipate kind of running Ambry kind of fully as a standalone business, at least for 2025, and so we're going to '26 before we'd be realizing anything significant.

Dan Brennan

Great, thank you.

Operator

[Sub Mandi], Guggenheim.

Sub Mandi

Hey guys, thank you for taking my questions. Eric, and, Jim, what is embedded in your 2025 guidance, if anything, for this year with respect to expectations for improvements in payer coverage for core dentist tests as a result of Andre acquisition and repayer relationships and contracts, that's one. And I have a follow up.

Jim Rogers

Yeah, so the overlap between the two businesses is relatively small. So it's a minimal amount of impact as we kind of migrate the reimbursement over to Ambry, I think less than $10 million. So there's not a ton of overlap in the current business, but there will be some small, benefit that we receive as we migrate that that reimbursement.

Sub Mandi

Okay, got it. And then you most recently announced a commercial agreement that Artera AI to commercially offer their prostate cancer prognostic test. Could you tell us about a process that leads to an agreement to offer a test like this? And then how do you decide to choose one test versus one provider over competing of offerings and what is, what are your priorities in that decision?

Eric Lefkofsky

I mean, well, so one of the things that we also highlighted in the quarters we're now connected to 3,000 hospitals or so in the United States or institutions in the United States. And so you're looking at a significant percentage of the United States that's now connected to Tempus.
And one of the benefits of that connectivity is not just that we can efficiently sequence a lot of patients and help them navigate to the right therapy and produce a lot of data that helps research and development downstream, but it also allows us to connect these AI-enabled insights back into the US healthcare system at scale, whether those insights are helping match patients to a clinical trial or close a care gap or deploy an algorithm that can be diagnostically relevant for a patient to make sure they're on the right the right path.
So that connectivity is really at the heart of the proprietary value that Tempus is building. At scale, which we're at now, we can deploy our own algorithms into the market, or we can deploy third-party algorithms. And so I would suspect you'll see us over time more and more bring third party algorithms onto our platform because of that connectivity.
So if somebody develops a really good test that's predictive or prognostic or can help somebody in some way, and especially if it's getting reimbursed and has analytical and clinical validation behind it, we may bring it on to our platform. We have a team that reviews these things and makes those decisions.
It's typically patient-led and physician-led. What's best for patients, what do our doctors want. But I think, as I've said, historically, I would not be surprised if over time we have dozens or hundreds of algorithms running on our platform or thousands at scale because we have the ability to distribute them in ways others don't.

Sub Mandi

Thank you for that, Eric. I'll get back in the queue.

Operator

Doug Schenkel, Wolfe Research.

Doug Schenkel

Good afternoon and thank you for taking my questions. Two topics I want to cover. First on MRD, could you just speak to when you are expecting any data readouts on tumor-naive or tumor-informed, so both products, and I guess related to that I just want to confirm that there's nothing in revenue guidance related to both given the current state of reimbursement and the need for more data. That's the first topic.
The other is on capital deployment. Obviously, you were active at the end of last year with Ambry. As you think about priorities from here, what's the appetite for more M&A based on your balance sheet situation and the current market environment? Thank you.

Eric Lefkofsky

Yeah, so I can start. So in terms of MRD, obviously, we've taken a tumor-naive assay to market. We started in CRC. And we've already put out some studies related to that essay. There will be more over time, but there's nothing a significant that would like fundamentally change our trajectory. We have an assay in the market, we've submitted for reimbursement unless we need something different for reimbursement.
We're on a good path to have that assay be reimbursed at some point in late 2025 and the next step for us would be to take that assay and other disease and the other subtypes, which we will do over time. We're collecting samples now and we'll bring that asset to market. We're consistently refining the asset to make it more sensitive and, decrease the lower limit of detection, so that work is ongoing and we'll look to bring that other disease areas over time.
But there's no like kind of pivotal study that we need to do something. We're already pasted all that and it's already moving. And I think the same is true for personnel, they have assays in market and not small cell lung and breast and IO and they've already submitted quite a bit. I think they're in the process of submitting across the board, for reimbursement, and they do have, I think, quoted that they expect reimbursement to show up sometime later this year, although you have to read their filings to get the most up to date. In terms of guidance, we have a long history of only focusing on what we can see.
So until we know that assets being reimbursed, we're not going to include anything substantive from it, because again, like we're in a world where it could be later this year, it could be early next year, it could be Q3, it could be Q4, like it's just impossible to tell. Once we get reimbursement, we'll start ramping up these assays at much greater scale.
Because, obviously, getting paid is a good precursor to ramping them up and, so that's that. In terms of capital, we also said last quarter that, we feel pretty good in terms of our genomics footprint. We feel like we've got a really incredible compliment, really best in class and a scale that's unique. So we're not looking to do big things there. We consistently look at the smaller things on the data side of our world and the AI side of our world, and so to the extent we find something small that's interesting, we might buy it, but nothing big is on the horizon.

Operator

Andrew Brackmann, William Blair.

Andrew Brackmann

Hi guys, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the question. Maybe on the reimbursement front. You obviously had the big win on the ECG algo getting reimbursed earlier this year. I guess bigger picture, does this sort of change how you're sort of viewing payers' willingness to potentially expand reimbursement for the AI-based diagnostics, or how should we sort of be thinking about that as a potential catalyst over the coming year or so? Thanks.

Jim Rogers

Yeah, I think from our perspective, we're really excited about it just because it does indicate, a willingness for people to reimburse for these types of tests that are, clinically validated and provide clinical utility. This doesn't mean that we're going to show up at the end of Q1 and have, hundreds of our algorithms reimbursed. There's still a long road to go in terms of securing, reimbursement for the various kind of different algorithmic diagnostics that we have.
We just highlighted this because it's something that we've talked about in the past is that there's a long road, but there are some kind of near term milestones, this being one of them, that demonstrates that it is possible for these types of things to be reimbursed, which is why we're so excited about it.

Andrew Brackmann

Great, thanks for that. And then maybe on the commercial front, just post Ambry close now, how should we sort of be thinking about any ads or changes to the way that the reps are going to be deployed and incentivized moving forward. Thanks, guys.

Jim Rogers

Yeah, so no changes. Yeah, the Ambry reps typically sell in the genetic counselors. Our reps are selling into to kind of oncologists, and so there's not a ton of overlap and so we don't anticipate there being any significant changes.

Operator

Mark Schappel, Loop.

Mark Schappel

Great, thank you for taking my question. Eric, the company recently announced the launch of Olivia AI, the app for personal health, the personal health concierges app. I was wondering if you just discuss the significance of the app and how you plan to monetize it.

Eric Lefkofsky

The app will get monetized on a per month subscription, like, similar to like ChatGPT. I think it's currently $12 per month. And it's starting off small, we just released the app to a broader audience. We need to get user feedback, we need to make changes and improve things, you don't really know.
How these things scale until you start getting folks engaged, but we're super excited at the potential to bring our core technology platform that allows us to make sense of all this multi-modal data and make diagnostics intelligent. We're excited to bring that to patients at scale. We think them being able to kind of move around all their healthcare data in their phone and have it stored in a secure locker and be able to talk to that data and get all kinds of insights using our AI engine. It's pretty awesome, so small, early, but could be transformative.

Mark Schappel

Great, thanks. And as a follow up, could you just walk us through your top, say two or three investment priorities for the business in the coming year?

Eric Lefkofsky

Our priorities are to stay focused on what's been working and make sure that we, that we're kind of heads down in terms of building our genomics business and our data business and pulling our connected network to grow our applications business.

Mark Schappel

Thank you.

Operator

Dan Arias, Stifel.

Dan Arias

Yeah, hi guys, thanks for getting me in here. Jim, on the data side, the $300 million in renewals that you've talked about for Astra and for GSK, can you just remind us on what the timing is for that renewal coming up? And is there any change in the confidence around that happening with the terms that exist here for the initial agreements?

Jim Rogers

Yeah, so just a reminder that's like kind of $300 million of options that we've highlighted in the total remaining contract value are kind of the last 18 months or so of the AstraZeneca and GSK agreements. There's no updates we're still several years away from kind of hitting those renewals, and kind of no change in our confidence in terms of them that we.

Dan Arias

Okay.

Eric Lefkofsky

But the range of the range of those renewals is like 27% to 29%, so we're still years away.

Dan Arias

Okay, and then Jim, just on Ambry, pricing hereditary is obviously not been static. Is there an implicit ASP assumption that you can share, maybe not necessarily the exact dollar amount per se, but just more like change year over year that you're baking in. And then if I could speak with the second one on here, Eric, the accelerant that you called out as being meaningful for Ambry, is that cash collection solely? Is that what you're referring to, or are there other items that you saw as one off there?

Jim Rogers

Yeah, so on the accelerant in terms of reimbursement was with cash collections just the increase in their collection rates. And then in terms of ASPs, we haven't disclosed specific ASP related to Ambry. They are puts and takes like there are everywhere else, so they'll have new in-network contracts which may change it one way, increase cash collection the other way, so puts and takes, but no significant changes kind of year over year on the ASP side for.

Dan Arias

Okay, thank you.

Operator

David Westenberg, Piper Sandler.

David Westenberg

Hi, thank you for taking the question. So just I'm going to talk about maybe about the seasonality of the business generally. I think you said 20% of the revenue is the expectation in Q1. I know that there is, you are expecting a little bit less, I think only two contribution, two months of contribution from Ambry, but can you just kind of remind us the normal seasonality of the business as we go through the year.

Jim Rogers

Yeah, so I'd say here's kind of different seasonality for the different kind of product lines, right? Genomics, we follow the same seasonality that you see from other kind of labs. Obviously, the end of the year in terms of the number of orders that are being placed around the holidays is low. So January tends to be kind of a slow start. Some more when people are typically on vacation, there's some slowness. So we're no different than other labs on the genomic side.
On the data side, we typically tend to be back half of the year waited, a lot of our kind of conversations and deliveries kind of align with former budgeting cycles, which typically follow kind of the calendar year. So if you went back historically, we're not anticipating a change in kind of the trends that we saw in 2024 and previously. And again, we would anticipate kind of the phasing in '25 being similar to what it was in '24.

David Westenberg

That that's very helpful. I was unappreciative that there is some of the little writing lag that gets into to January. So then just on the contract revenue of that $940 million, I appreciate the call you gave earlier with Mike's question about the lumpiness of that. How should we think about the long-term basis on the correlation between those?
Should those grow at kind of the same speed over the longer term, but of course data and services is going to be lumpy and then, the farmer revenue maybe you're going to recognize more on a like a linear kind of basis. I don't know. I'm just I'm actually asking and then. Historically, like it's been a smaller portion of a lot of our other company's business, but they've kind of said like revenue is expected in like this revenue would be, the value is expected in the next two years or some sort of recognition period. Is there a recognition period for that? Thank you so much.

Eric Lefkofsky

Yeah, so the bulk of our total remaining contract value is made up of data and as we've just talked about with AstraZeneca and GSK, these people can find multi-year, deals, five-year deals, four-year deals, six-year deals, whatever it is. So these are multi-year deals.
And if you sign a big deal, what happened if you were like we have certain investors who've been in Tempus for a long time, so they could see the total remaining contract value, which, was, maybe a few $100 million at one point and we signed some of these big deals and it jumped up to $700 million or $800 million or $900 million. So, you have years where the total remaining contract value grew by 200% or 300%. So yes, long term.
If you look at a 10-year horizon, your total remaining contract value should equal eventually the data you deliver, and it should grow at a similar growth rate. But if the if the bookings, if your bookings number grows by 200%, it's not going to grow by 30% for the next three years, like magically. Like in other words, it can be lumpy.
Some years it can grow by 200%. Some years it can grow by 0%. But in the aggregate, it's going to have to basically match your data deliveries. So we're, we had some very large contracts that got signed, great for us, and so we feel like we're in a good spot. The fact that we're still growing that number even off of periods of really high rapid bookings growth is again indicative of the fact that our data business is firing on all cylinders.
So and in terms of the horizon, again, if you look at the size of our total remaining contract value and the size of our data business, I don't know, direction of our data business is about $250 million and there's $940 million, so it's multiple years.

David Westenberg

Very helpful. Thank you.

Operator

That concludes our Q&A session. I will now turn the call over to Lizzy Krutoholow for the closing remarks.

Jim Rogers

(multiple speakers) No, I'm happy to jump in. Thank everyone for joining the call, and we'll see you next quarter.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may not disconnect. Have a nice day.