Yahoo Finance

Scott Roberts

All right, thanks, Bobby, and good morning. I look forward to discussing the financial results we achieved in 2024 and our outlook for 2025 with you today. Unless otherwise noted, the comparisons would be against the same period of last year. I'd like to start off by con congratulating our teams on another successful year. The drive and dedication to building great products for our customers is paying off, as evidenced by the accomplishments that Bobby just mentioned.
Now, let's get into the financial discussion. Revenues were $74.2 million, up 5.2%. Operating income was $4.7 million, up 10.2%. Net income was $4.9 million, up 6.5%. Earnings per share was $0.16 per share, up from $0.15 per share, and adjusted EBITDA was $16.2 million and was up 1.3%. Our revenues increased by $3.7 million or 5.2%, coming in at $74.2 million compared to $70.6 million in last year's fourth quarter.
Revenues from our subscription products accounted for 96% of total revenues and were $71.2 million, increasing by $3.2 million or 4.8%, and professional services revenues were $3.1 million, increasing by 0.4 million, or 15.7%. Subscription revenue growth contributors included Credential stream with 28% growth, Shift Wizard with 17% growth, and the Competency suite with 8% growth. Partially offsetting this growth were declines of legacy products.
Including the [ASOS] product suite, Echo, and MSOW, which are often on-premises as opposed to SA solutions. Taken together, the legacy products I just mentioned resulted in fourth quarter revenue declines of approximately $1 million compared to the fourth quarter of last year.
Our remaining performance obligations were $621 million as of the end of the quarter compared to $541 million for the same period of last year. This improvement is due to the strong fourth quarter performance we had. We expect approximately 40% of the revenue backlog to be converted over the next 12 months. Gross margin came in at 66.2% compared to 66% in the prior year quarter. Cloud hosting, software and labor costs contributed most of the increase in cost to revenues over the prior year quarter.
Operating expenses excluding cost to revenues increased by 5%. Product development was up 6.3% and sales and marketing was up 9.3%. These increases primarily resulted from higher labor costs associated with additions to staffing levels in our product development area over the prior year, higher sales commissions associated with the growth in revenues, and increased investments in marketing initiatives, including the development of our e-commerce channels.
GNA costs were at 4.3%, primarily resulting from increased stock-based compensation and higher bed debt charges, which were primarily associated with customer bankruptcies. Depreciation and amortization declined by 0.6%. An adjusted EBITDA came in at $16.2 million, which was up 1.3%, and adjusted EBITDA margin was 21.8% compared to 22.6% last year. Now let's move on and go over the balance sheet metrics. We ended the quarter with cash and investment balances of $97.2 million. Up from $94.9 million last quarter.
During the quarter we deployed $6.8 million for capital expenditures, completed two acquisitions which were TCPS and the clinical hub for a combined outlay of $1.3 million and paid $0.9 million to shareholders through our dividend program. We also made $1.6 million in income tax payments during the quarter.
Our day's sales outstanding improved to a record low of 35 days compared to 42 days last year. As I mentioned just a moment ago, bad debt charges were up in the fourth quarter. And they totaled $2.6 million for the full year, which was up from $1 million in the prior year. Approximately $1.8 million of the bad debt charges that we incurred during 2024 resulted from three highly publicized customer bankruptcies.
While these bankruptcies are unfortunate, we don't think this represents a broad trend across the industry. Here to date, our cash flows for from operations were down 9.9% or $6.3 million from the prior year. They came in at $57.7 million compared to $64 million last year. Free cash flows were down $6.5 million or 17.9%, and we're $29.5 million compared to $36 million last year.
Want to provide some more context about our cash flows and why there was a decline this year. For many years we've utilized net operating losses and other deductions to help offset our cash tax liabilities. In 2024, the tax benefits from the NOLs were less impactful, and our cash tax liabilities were greater than they were in the past several years.
In fact, we had approximately $6.1 million more of income tax payments in 2024 compared to 2023. In addition, just general timing of disbursements at the end of the year also played into the year over year decline in free cash flows. Our balance sheet remains strong with $97.2 million of cash and no debt. Providing us with several options to strategically deploy available capital to improve shareholder value.
We maintain a disciplined approach to capital allocation and how we prioritize our use of capital. Our utmost priority is making organic investments back into the business, which is evident by our annual capital expenditure and R&D plans. The second is pursuing acquisition opportunities which we have a long track record of executing, including two small tuck-ins during the fourth quarter.
The third is returning a portion of profits back to shareholders in the form of cash dividends. And the fourth priority is that our board may authorize share repurchase programs, which will also have a successful track record of executing. From an M&A perspective, we maintain an active pipeline and continue to evaluate opportunities that fit our criteria which include industry, product, and financial, among others.
While the M&A markets and healthcare tech technology have been slower than usual over the past 18 to 24 months, we expect to see them to begin to pick back up over the next 12 months. Now let's transition over to the financial guidance for 2025, which we announced yesterday in our earnings release.
We expect consolidated revenues to range between $302 million and $307 million. We expect net income to range between $19.2 million and $21.4 million. Adjusted EBITDA to range between $70 million and $74 million. And capital expenditures are expected to range between $31 million and $34 million. This guidance does not include assumptions for any acquisitions that we may complete during the year.
Our revenue guidance range implies a growth rate between 3.6% and 5.3%. And we expect more of the growth will be concentrated in the second half of the year versus the first half. There are a couple of factors that we expect will impact comparisons in the first half of the year, which include reduced revenues from the customer bankruptcies and reduced revenues from perpetual license sales of legacy products.
We expect gross margins to come in around 66% for the year. For expenses, we plan to ramp up hiring rates, so our labor costs are expected to increase steadily across the year. Expect product development expense to increase in the 2% to 3% range, sales and marketing expense to increase in the 4% to 6% range. GNA costs are expected to be flat to down 1%, and depreciation and amortization is expected to increase between 7% and 9%.
We expect the effective tax rate will be in the 20% to 22% range. Our capital expenditure forecast anticipates between $27 million and $29 million of capitalized software investments across the hStream platform and our three application suites to further differentiate and enhance our product offerings. It also includes approximately $4 million to $5 million for technology upgrades within our data centers, which is where we host the majority of our learning application solutions.
This includes firewalls, storage networks, and servers, which typically have four-year to six-year lifespan. So, every few years, we have to upgrade and replace these assets. In closing, I want to share the news that our board approved an increase in the cash dividend to be paid out to shareholders. They approved a dividend payment of $0.031 per share. Which is an increase of 10.7% over the previous quarter's dividend of $0.028 per share.
This is the second increase we've announced in our in our dividends since we began the program two years ago. The upcoming dividend is payable on March 21, 2025, to holders of record on March 10th, 2025. We continue to be confident in our ability to accomplish our innovative organic growth strategies while also returning cash to our investors in the form of a dividends.
Well, that wraps up my comments for this quarter's call. Thanks for your time this morning, and I'll now turn it for some additional updates.

Robert Frist

Thank you, Scotty. In this back third here, I look forward to updating some highlights related to our core applications. I thought it'd be good to take a little time to focus on scheduling, credentialing, and learning applications, suites, and some of their accomplishments during the fourth quarter.
First off, we'll start with scheduling shift wizard, which is our core product in scheduling. I think you all know we're working really hard to make Shift wizard have what we call feature parity with our legacy and so products, and we expect that here in the middle of the year. So we're excited about that advance.
Shift wizard, the core product and scheduling earns best in class award for software and services. And for those of you keeping score at home, that means that each of our core applications and scheduling credential and learning just notch major awards victories and all those awards are based on customer feedback.
Congratulations to our teams on earning these recognitions. Importantly, Shift wizard continued to deliver strong revenue growth as well. Revenues grew 17% over the fourth quarter of last year and 25.1% over the full year 2023.
In the fourth quarter sales were both from transitions from our legacy and sauce application like Guthrie Clinic and Saint Francis Health System and from competitive takeouts like Stormont Vail Health care and John Muir Health, among others.
Let's move to credentialing here for a minute. We're really excited again. We put a lot of time, almost 18 months of really hard effort into earning the high trust R2 certification for our credentialing application suite. This is the gold standard of information security and compliance assurance, and we're happy to deliver that peace of mind to our Credential stream customers.
Credential stream also had a productive fourth quarter and full year in terms of growth. Revenues grew 28% over the 4th quarter last year and 35% over the full year 2023. These results included sales from both new customers and customers who chose to migrate from our legacy credentialing applications, like Kettering Health and Geisinger Medical Center were among enterprise credential stream deals that we closed in the fourth quarter.
This brings us to our learning application suite, and I started to talk on that application suite. Again, it's gratifying to have HealthStream Learnings are named as G2's best software application in healthcare, and that's happening while we're in the midst of a major enhancement cycle that spans the entire learning application suite. Significant enhancements include innovations in our insights reporting, which is the core of reporting and data architecture.
And the introduction of the groundbreaking health string learning experience. We launched Insights Plus in the first quarter, our new reporting analytics capability of 2024, and it already has over 5,600 users across 252 organizations. We launched the HealthStream learning experience in January this year, so just a few weeks ago. We've already implemented an AI powered search feature in the HLX. And as I mentioned, three exciting. A major early adopters are in the pilot phase with hStream learning experience.
With the advances being achieved in our emerging hStream platform, we've realigned our operations to better support growth, and so I want to turn a little attention to our internal structure and some updates to our leadership.
First, as we move the single HealthStream, a single platform strategy, we call it the One HealthStream initiative inside of our company. And we approached the year of the platform, which is this key year of integrating the three applications with each other through the platform and connecting those applications to the social networks we're building through the platform.
And so in in an effort to better organize around those key initiatives and make this view the platform, senior Vice President Kevin O'Hara has been promoted to executive Vice President Enterprise Workforce platform. Through this promotion, we've integrated the management of the hStream platform and our three core application suites, learning credentialing and scheduling to be under Kevin's leadership as our suite of suites.
And so we've now moved these three primary applications, learning credential and scheduling to one leader and promoted him, Kevin O'Hara, and his job this year is to make it the year of the platform to make those applications further connect to each other and to the platform itself. Congratulations to Kevin O'Hara, and we look forward to his leadership on this important initiative.
Executive Vice President Michael Collier has been promoted adding additional responsibilities to his current executive Vice President role. Essentially, we're going to pull a lot of operations off of our product leaders like Kevin and Trisha Cody we'll talk about in a minute and centralize them to Michael Collier. So, Michael Collier is assuming in addition to his corporate strategy development, a large part of the HealthStream's operations.
So, responsibilities in this new role will cover a broader scope of HealthStream's enterprise operations which will now also include customer success management, implementations, and onboarding for all the company's products and services. So instead of having separate onboarding and implementation groups in separate under separate leaders, we're pulling onboarding success management implementations under one leader, Michael Collier.
A senior Vice President Trisha Coady, based on her incredible performance across her workforce development solution sets in the last year, delivering a lot of our growth and managing over half of our revenue for the company, has been promoted to executive Vice President of Workforce Development Solutions.
She will continue to provide executive leadership over our workforce development suite of solutions, which includes Our products and competency development like Jane and our competency suite and resuscitation and quality and safety and revenue cycle. So she has a very broad suite of tools that are very relevant to the clinical workflows, clinical development of the clinical workforce.
Michael Sousa, who has served as executive Vice President of Enterprise applications, will be leaving the company at the end of March. And this is after a long 20-year tenure with HealthStream where he's helped deliver amazing results for those 20 years. In fact, looking back on it when he joined, the company was around 140 employees and $20 million in revenue, and as he leaves, he can be proud that he's helped build a company with over 1,000 employees and nearly $300 million in revenue.
Great appreciation of Michael Sousa as he enters the next step in his exciting career. And what's really exciting is that Both parties are intending to find a way to work together in the future and so we'll have more announcements on that in the future, but we hope and expect that his future endeavors will lead to partnership with HealthStream and a partnership with our ecosystem. We'll see if we can pull that off. It'll be really exciting. Again, congratulations to Michael Sousa.
Thank you for his 20 years of service helping build the company. And I look forward to seeing how Trisha Coady, Michael Collier, and Kevin O'Hara can continue to deliver the excellent results in their new roles as we lead the company forward.
About two weeks from now, HealthStream will be holding its annual credentialing user group conference at our corporate office in Nashville, Tennessee. This event is called Drive 25, and we expect about 350 of our credential stream customers to attend, network, and participate in roundtable discussions. They'll attend training sessions and learn more from one another in those two days, March 11th and March 12th. We look forward to welcoming customers to Nashville and the HealthStream here in the coming weeks.
Now my pitch to all of you as shareholders. I like to think this way. If you're interested in a small but growing, profitable company with highly recurring revenue, focus on the future of the staff and past platform of the service powered company. We expect to deliver steady growth, and we've determined to share some of our gas with showers in the form of a dividend.
Maybe HealthStream is the right stock for you. And so I can't stop myself from asking for the sale. We'd love to see you all listening on this callcom shareholders of HealthStream and go on the journey with us. We work hard every day to deliver shareholder value. I'm just so excited about how our products are beginning to deliver in the marketplace.
At this time, I'd like to turn it over to the operator to begin Q&A.

Question and Answer Session

Operator

Thank you, sir. At this time, we will conduct the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)
Our first question comes from Matt Hewitt at Craig Hallam. Your line is open.

Matt Hewitt

Good morning and thank you for taking the questions and for all the details. Maybe the first question is last year you set out some kind of some midterm targets for revenue growth, gross margins, and EBITDA margins. You've now hit two of those and hopefully that continues. The third one is. The revenue growth you're, you've kind of pointed to a 7% to 10% top line growth.
What, what's it going to take to achieve that type of a growth profile? It seems like the last couple of years you've kind of been in that the mid single digits. What, what's going to be the lever to kind of accelerate that growth rate?

Robert Frist

Yeah, fair enough. I think, well, first of all, I just want to break down that number set. The seven to 10 was composed of five to seven of organic and one to three of inorganic, and as I did mention, we do hope to see, and we think we're good at executing M&A and have the resource to do it. So as far as that part, the 1% to 3% inorganic, I feel like over time we'll be able to deliver that part of the growth profile.
So that leaves the 5% to 7%. We did give that guidance. I think at the end of 2022, wasn't guidance it was really a set of what we call medium term objectives, and they were our aspiration was to get organic growth in 5 to 7% range within the three-year time. I will note that the fourth quarter was the first quarter we kind of pushed in.
We did the 5.2%, but as we looked at the four years, we still see that we have this offsetting decline to this, the rapidly growing fast applications that we mentioned. In some of our legacy businesses and so we did predict and look at another year where we have to handle that trade-off between migrating customers and some lost customers against the more rapidly growing SaaS applications. Eventually, of course, we'll work through that problem and then hope to return to more natural growth rates of the newer products overall.
In addition, in the meantime, we're working on improving our margin profiles. I think the shift to the platform technologies enables us to be more efficient in the way we deliver the revenues, and so we do look forward to staying in the range and pushing to the top of those ranges from our medium-term objectives from measures of cash flow and particularly EBITDA, which is a measured target that we focus on. And so, I think, it's a little more of continue the same progress.
I think if we deliver award winning products, we factor out our legacy applications over time. We need to do a little better job of converting customers instead of losing some to the market, and we're going to focus on that this year, a little better conversion rate would also boost the growth rate. So, there's several priorities for our team to focus on to try to bump us back up into that 5% to 7% organic growth range,
and we'll just keep working on them, click of the wheel, we'll keep advancing the business until we figure it out. And it is exciting to have a great new products to take to market and see if we can outperform in those to get us into those growth ranges. That's all I know to say is that we'll keep iterating until we get it right and get it better.

Matt Hewitt

No, that's incredibly helpful and maybe just one point. The headwinds that you've been facing as you've been shifting customers from perpetual to Sass.
Is there any way to quantify what that headwind is? I think last year, if I'm not mistaken, is like 1% to 2%, which, in the end would have ultimately put you in that the lower end of that 7% to 10%. But as we look at 2025, is it a similar magnitude, another 1% to 2% headwind this year?

Robert Frist

I think those are the kind of details, especially when we talk about medium term objectives. I want to leave those for a potential investor day. We haven't committed to the date just yet, but we're trying to get one in the first half of the year, and I think it's appropriate to separate annual guidance and our annual forward look from our medium-term objectives,
which are just that they're objectives that we drive toward. And so, I think I leave those kinds of questions and basically that one for an investor day and it's our commitment to TRY to get one scheduled before the first half of this year.

Matt Hewitt

Got it. And then maybe one final question I think last quarter you had kind of noted that your pipelines were incredibly strong and in fact I think you even noted 3X coverage. I'm just curious, your success rate in closing those, what are you hearing from customers? Was there isn't any hesitancy at the end of the year to maybe hold off until January, just any color along the pipeline closure rate would be helpful.
Thank you.

Robert Frist

Yeah, actually I think you could see a little bit and we mentioned it. That contract backlog, it really did move up a good bit. We had some really good sales performance in the fourth quarter, multi-year contracts, of course, but the remaining performance obligations had a really nice jump.
It doesn't always correlate directly to revenue growth because length of term of contract matters and all that, but it was nice to see some of that pipeline come rushing in. In particular, December was strong and even amazingly a meaningful percentage of our overall.
Annual sales occurred in the last five days, so it was an exciting to watch that pipeline. I think we still have a strong pipeline at the end of the year, and so we're optimistic. January is a tiny bit slow because we did so well in December, but I've already seen February start turning around and we're expecting great things for this year and still maintain one of the strongest pipelines I've seen in our history. So we're excited and expect the sales team to deliver great results this year as well.

Matt Hewitt

That's great thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from John Pinney at Canaccord Genuity. Your line is open.

John Pinney

Hi, yeah, John Pinney for Richard Close, thanks for the questions. So just to start with AI, are you, you're using it in HLX. I'm just curious, are you seeing any, like efficiencies to drive, like, efficiencies and product development or any anything like that using AI internally?

Robert Frist

It's really fascinating. We have bifurcated the problem even at the board level and the opportunity of AI from both its internal application, how it changes how we build and perform our work, everything from experimenting with AI to help us in our sales process.
We have several pilots going to use AI to help us program and develop. And so yes, there are a lot of internal initiatives to try to learn to make us more efficient, make our workforce more efficient. That are that we're undertaking now, but I would say we're new to it, as is most everyone, and we're learning as fast as we can. I do expect productivity gains, but probably not in the short run.
In fact, probably a little bit more added expense as you pay for the tools of AI before you get the maximum benefit from them is the way I would think about it for the next, say, six months to nine months. But we have lots of exciting [pals] internally in our product design development, we've had, we've used some AI for many years and our [Jain] products to help assess clinical reasoning ability.
We use things like natural language processing with IBM Watson, in the last several years, and now we're further advancing our products with the large language model search capabilities in our new HLX. So we're seeing implementations now of AI in our products as well. So, we're very excited about the potential for AI to change both how we work and how we build products.
I would say probably, and this is probably true of most organizations, they'll probably see a bit of an increase in expenses before they see a bit of a decrease in expenses, paying for all these tools and learning to use them will have a bit of a curve. But I'm optimistic for the long run impact to make us much more efficient. There are certain roles I think can almost be automated.
We're seeing that we have a pilot going on or researching software in this area in the paralegal space would help design the contract templates. We think it's going to be incredibly effective at helping us in our contracting process. So I hope that answers your questions. Lots of initiatives, probably a little bit increase of expense in this year, and then I'm expecting great things in the years to come though from efficiencies, benefit, product launches, and customer benefit.

John Pinney

Great thanks and then one follow up.
So I guess with these new deals that you close in fourth quarter I guess like an update on these pricing escalators were you successful in getting pricing escalators in these new contracts are you seeing like these new products making it easier to negotiate price escalators into the contracts or any commentary you can provide there would be great.

Robert Frist

One of the things we're finding is that in in in a strange way the customers appreciate the escalators because if you enter a three year or four year contract with a flat price. And then when you come up for renewal, there's a big jump and your budget isn't ready for it to reflect the changes in market.
And so, in a strange way and being a laggard in implementing escalators, but now fully deployed, meaning that every time we sell our new software, for example, as a learning customer comes with renewal, we've been very successful. I would say a 95% plus hit rate of incorporating escalators into every renewal.
And so, I think it'll be a multi-year process over say 36 months, if you think of an average contract length of three years, we'll be able to incorporate escalators into every base contract. We're just not getting any pushback yet, and we've rolled out the program now in our other two primary application areas. Now, once you implement an escalator, it doesn't start till the next year.
And so kind of you think of a 3-year average contract, or 3.5-year average contract at HealthStream as they come up for renewal, we renew them. And we insert the escalators and then their impact begins the next year, that first year of escalation in the new contract. And so, it will be a multi-year impact, but I would say that we're in the process of fully deploying,
meaning I expect as every contract renews, we have a very high success rate of incorporating base escalators in the contracts, which is very exciting and should provide a, within 36 months, a new base level of growth for the company. Which maybe is a bit of an answer to a prior analyst's question about another positive element to getting us in the mid-term objective growth range we articulated earlier, 5% to 7%.

John Pinney

Great appreciate the color, thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Ryan Daniels at William Blair.

Ryan Daniels

Yeah, thanks for taking the question. Bobby, I was hoping you could go into a little more detail on HLX and when that might go to full launch. I think you said you're in three pilots now, so I'm curious when that might be a meaningful contributor.

Robert Frist

Sure, we've begun a product demonstrations. The sales team was trained at this year's sales meeting just a few weeks ago. And so, we have pricing and it's available now, so we're beginning the sales process now. Of course, there's nothing like successful customers to point to when you're working on the sale, but we found several things.
One, after watching this space for years, meaning the HLX the learning experience space. We finally launch our solution and we've seen it. That it'll have a material positive impact being healthcare focused. We think that the criticality of having well-defined development pathways for people with this mixed media approach and the self-user guided learning is going to be very powerful for workforce development needs in healthcare, both helping with the themes of, organizations providing a better tool set other than kind of top-down administrative of learning.
Now you can put people on exploratory career journeys. And so, some of our early pilots I look forward to talking more about, but we have a governmental entity that's looking to develop new categories of healthcare workers up in New York, that is piloting, and they're really excited about it because if they have a deficit of a certain type of worker, they think that the HLX will help them guide people to those career paths, which is similar to what we think employers might do.
So, to summarize, the product is live, it's available for sale. The sales force is trained on it. We're beginning to go to market. And also, as an add-on or extension to the HealthStream Learning Center, we think it provides tremendous additional value at a relatively small incremental cost, especially compared to competitors. So again, efficiently built on the HealthStream hStream platform, allowed for rapid development cycles, healthcare tailored with some AI features that make it more healthcare specific.
And then focus on the career development opportunities for healthcare workers we think fits a broader need in the market. So I think we'll start to see some sales of that, in the first half of this year. And then once the pilot's successful, these larger organizations, I expect sales to pick up in the second half.

Ryan Daniels

Okay, perfect, thank you for that. And then as a follow up, I'm curious as you go to market with more interoperability between your three core application suites, so you're starting to see more cross sell upsell opportunity and merge, upon renewals, and is it driving up user satisfaction as well as they can tie things like credentialing and learning pathways together to really advance their workflows? Thanks.

Robert Frist

Well, I'd still say. This is the year that that manifests more. And so, what I would say is that the senior executive team is working to find our first, I guess I'd call them our enterprise workforce platform, our enterprise workforce suite, the suite of suites. We're kind of working with trying to find a couple of key customers that will go on that journey with us.
So, I'd say it's not broadly manifesting yet and Cross selling, but I think we're well positioned to see some of that also in the second half of the year. Of course, we already have amazing cross selling going on anyway, even as independent applications because our nearly 60 people in account management are always working to cross introduce the product.
So, a big part of our long history is effective cross-selling and growing the value per person per year at our accounts, and we're very good at it. I think when it becomes more technology enabled and they see the benefits as you pointed out, we think there are concrete benefits to health systems and say, onboarding physicians when our learning and credentialing systems work together. And I think again by the middle of this year we'll have more tangible benefits to show our customers about how that's progressing.

Ryan Daniels

Okay perfect thank you so much. Congrats on all the recent awards and all the product enhancements thanks.

Robert Frist

Thank you. Well, we want you to see where some of our CapEx was going because, we put a reasonable amount into a product development in the form of direct software investments and capitalized software investments and it's good when those come out with a winning products at the backside.

Operator

I'm showing no further questions at this time. I would not like to turn it back to Bobby for closing remarks.

Robert Frist

Thank you to everyone for following us, especially to our employees. Congratulations to our three promoted Senior Executives and also, we wish the best with Michael Sousa. I look forward to our next meeting as we talk about the future together with Michael.
All employees should take great pride in accomplishing our G2 rating number one and getting our systems through the security protocols to make us high trust certified, amazing set of accomplishments. Thank you to all of nearly 1,100 hStream employees for delivering a great year and look forward to 2025 and look forward to all of you on our next earnings call.
Thank you much.

Operator

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.