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Aparna Ramesh

Thank you, Brad, and good morning everyone. Our 2024 results once again highlight our consistent financial and operational execution coupled with proactive management of our balance sheet and funding sources.
Our diversified streams of business revenue and our funding and hedging capabilities stemming from our disciplined approach to asset liability management allow us to continue to fulfill our mission and generate consistent shareholder returns across market cycles while staying in alignment with our long term strategic initiatives.
Net volume growth in fourth quarter 2024 was $1.1 billion and this was primarily driven by strong loan purchase volume in the farm and ranch, renewable energy, and broadband broadband infrastructure segments. Offsetting loan purchase volume growth in the fourth quarter was $255 million of farm and ranch advantage that matured without refinancing.
As we saw throughout the year, changes in the quarterly advantage securities volume are primarily driven by the larger transaction sizes for the product, scheduled maturity amounts for a particular quarter, the liquidity and loan growth opportunity needs of farmer advantage counterparties, changes in the pricing and availability of wholesale funding, and the relative value of our wholesale financing product versus other funding alternatives.
Based on these factors, we expect advantage business volume in both lines of business to continue to be volatile as we navigate the evolving needs of our stakeholders and as the yield curve sequence and interest rates stabilize. Positive momentum that we saw in the farm and ranch, renewable energy and broadband infrastructure business segments included strong loan purchase volume, which is generally more accretive and higher spread relative to the advantage product.
The shift in business composition to higher spread business has been one of the drivers of the increase in net effective spread quarter over quarter. We believe that our pipeline and the overall compositional shift positions us well heading into 2025. Turning to 2024 results, four earnings were $171.6 million or 15.64 per diluted share in 2024 and $43.6 million or 3.97 per diluted share in fourth quarter 2024.
Our full year core earnings results reflect modest growth over our record breaking 2023 financial performance, and this is largely due to our proactive debt funding strategies, disciplined asset liability management approach that is designed to minimize earning volatility over the medium to long term, coupled with opportunistic debt issuances that have allowed us to accretively fund new asset opportunities as they've arisen.
Net effective spread improved $12.6 million year-over-year, and this is largely due to a shift in volume to more higher yielding assets. In percentage terms, net effect is spread compressed year-over-year by 3 basis points to 115 basis points due to loans moving into non-accrual status, which has resulted in a decrease in interest income, and that has been coupled also with a more volatile funding environment. This dynamic was partially offset by our diversified revenue streams and opportunistic funding and hedging of our balance sheet for the use of callable debt securities.
Poor earnings in fourth quarter 2024 declined sequentially by $1.4 million and this was primarily due to an increase in operating expenses and credit expenses. These factors were partially offset by an increase in net effective spread, a decrease in preferred stock dividends, and the previously mentioned renewable energy investment tax credits.
That effective spread in dollar terms improved quarter over quarter to $87.5 million from $85.4 million. This improvement was driven by several factors, and this includes a proactive equity capital allocation strategy where we are laddering and layering duration to minimize balance sheet and earnings volatility, the opportunistic redemption and reissuance of fixed rate callable debt at lower market interest rates. A modest improvement in floating rate funding levels relative to SOFA and the expanded yield from volume growth in the renewable energy and broadband infrastructure portfolios.
As we mentioned on prior calls, our treasury and funding desk opportunistically takes advantage of favorable market conditions, and this coupled with our disciplined asset liability management positions us very well in changing credit environments to deliver consistent spreads across all business cycles. In percentage terms, net effective spread was unchanged sequentially at 116 basis points.
Operating expenses increased 18% sequentially, largely due to an increase in licensing fees, infrastructure technology costs, and higher transactional legal fees that were associated with our broadband infrastructure and renewable energy portfolio.
Brad mentioned, we introduced new segment level reporting in fourth quarter 2024. That reporting framework includes the breakout of our broadband infrastructure portfolio, which previously was cited within the rural utilities portfolio and provides the direct operating expenses within each of our new segments. These enhanced segment disclosures reflect our commitment to providing transparency into our portfolios from both a volume and profitability perspective.
Operational efficiency was 30% for fourth quarter 2024, and it was 28% for full year 2024. Both are in line with our long-term strategic plan targets, and this is a reflection of our disciplined approach to expense management and we'll continue to monitor and manage expense growth as we've done proactively against incoming revenue streams.
As we discussed on our last call, we are very proud of the on-time and in budget completion of our multi-year technology investment which modernized our Treasury infrastructure, positioning us well to mitigate risk, increase efficiency, and enhance deal flow.
As we look ahead, we remain committed to bringing cutting edge technology and new capabilities to our customers and continuing to invest in ways to build innovative systems that accelerate growth while closely monitoring and managing our efficiency ratio. We expect that ratio to remain at or below a long run average of 30% through our disciplined approach to keeping our efficiency ratios in line with our growth expectations.
Turning to credit, our performance with respect to credit was largely driven by large loans with borrower-specific headwinds, as the nature of our credit events in charge of has historically tended to be idiosyncratic. For example, in 2024, we incurred an aggregate economic loss of $2.5 million and this was related to a single $14.5 million agricultural storage and processing borrower exposure. A portion of this was sold in the second quarter 2024, and the remainder is currently under contract to be sold.
Our total allowance for losses was $25.3 million as of December 30, 2024, and this reflects a $3.4 million dollar increase from September 30th, 2024. The increase was primarily attributable to new volume in the infrastructure finance line of business and a single renewable energy loan that was downgraded to substandard during the quarter. Based on our analysis, the issues involved with this substandard loan are borrower specific and are not indicative of any broader systemic risk in our portfolio.
Overall substandard asset volume increased this quarter to $440.7 million from $402 million as of September 30, 2024, primarily due to credit downgrades. Substandard assets represented approximately 1.5% of our total outstanding business volume as of year end 2024 compared to 1.4% of our total portfolio as of September 30, 2024 and 0.8% as of year 2023.
90 day delinquencies with 37 basis points across our entire portfolio as of December 30, 2024 compared to 51 basis points at the end of September. The decrease in the fourth quarter is a seasonal pattern of Farmer Mac 90 day delinquencies with higher levels generally observed at the end of the first and third quarters and lower levels generally observed at the end of the second and fourth quarter of each year. This seasonal pattern is due to the annual and semiannual payment dates on the majority of farm and ranch loans.
Although we had credit expenses in 2024 that were above historical levels, we have outperformed our peers in how we have navigated a slowing down in the agricultural cycle, which reflects a strong underwriting and credit discipline. We believe that our total portfolio of loans is well diversified. Our credit profile remains strong overall, and that we are well buffered given our strong levels of capital.
Let me turn to capital now. Farmer Mac $1.5 billion of capital as of December 30, 2024 exceeded our statutory requirement by $583 million or 64%. Our tier one capital ratio was 14.2% as of December 30, 2024 compared to 14.2% as of September 30, 2024 and 15.4% as of December 31, 2023. The year-over-year decrease in core capital was primarily due to the redemption of the CDC preferred stock in 3rd quarter 2024, along with an expansion into more accretive lines of business such as renewable energy. These lines of business do consume additional capital.
This was offset by the efficiency that we gained from executing successfully on two securitization transactions in 2024. Our strong capital position has allowed us to continue to grow and diversify our revenue streams, remain resilient in volatile credit environments, and allow us to offer a source of low cost liquidity for our customers and borrowers even in difficult times.
As you read in this morning's press release, we are very pleased to announce a $0.10 per share increase in our first quarter, 2025 common stock dividends to $1.50 representing a 7% increase from the quarterly dividends paid in 2024. We believe that our strong earnings and consistent capital position support this dividend increase and our overall strategy to achieve a targeted payout that balances a reasonable growth of both previous and future earnings and our expectations for future business volume growth.
We are also very pleased with the execution of our fifth farm series transaction in November, which is for the first time, our 2nd transaction in a year. We received more than 3 times the demand for this latest offering, which is really a testament to Farmer's reputation with institutional investors as well as the overall market appetite for the underlying agricultural asset class.
Not only was demand strong, but we were once again able to successfully expand our investor base in both branches. The consistent farm series issuances every year for the last four years have not only built a strong foundation for future market liquidity but also led to continually improved execution economics and greater efficiency of servicing for the agricultural mortgage backed securities market.
The securitization program remains an important strategic initiative for Farmer Mac as it allows us to diversify our funding, enhance, and optimize the balance sheet by efficient deployment of capital. Securitization also enables our growth strategy by targeting new asset opportunities that we might include in our conduit. We are very pleased with the tremendous support we've seen from our customers and investors for this program, and we remain committed to being a regular issuer in the market.
Our liquidity and capital positions remain well in excess of all regulatory requirements. Our projections show minimal change in our profitability, with limited exposure to movements and interest rates, but the market rates go up or down. As of year in 2024, Farmer Mac had 264 days of liquidity, and we held approximately $1 billion in cash and other short-term instruments in our investment portfolio. We expect to be well positioned in the medium term as we move into the anticipated easing cycle, and we're confident in our resiliency against potential short and medium term market disruptions.
Once again, our team delivered strong, consistent quarterly results, maintaining key metrics that we highlight on each call while staying within our credit framework, which emphasizes loan to value and cash flow metrics, notably, we delivered a 16% return on equity this quarter and an efficiency ratio of 30% both in line with our strategic target of 30% and within the range for return on equity.
We believe that our balance sheet is well positioned for market uncertainty, and we are more optimistic than ever to deliver on our long-term strategic plan objectives. And with that, Brad, let me turn it back to you.

Bradford Nordholm

Thank you very much, Aparna.
As I hope you've heard, we are very pleased with our 2024 results and believe that we're well positioned to deliver on our multi-year strategy as we head into 2025 with good momentum, strong liquidity and capital levels, a diversified business mix, highly effective risk management practices, and most importantly, a talented team of dedicated professionals.
Before I turn to your questions, I do want to comment on the change in administration here in Washington DC. Is a publicly traded financial services firm and a government sponsored enterprise?
We are crystal clear on our enduring mission to increase the accessibility of financing to provide vital liquidity for American agriculture and rural infrastructure, essential parts of the US economy. We closely monitor regulatory and statutory developments and messaging and as of right now we do not anticipate material changes to our business as a result of the change in administration.
We will continue to strive to deliver on our mission throughout the agricultural economic cycles as reflected by our financial results over the last several years. Our lone pipeline and capital base are strong and growing. And our revenue is well diversified, providing capacity for further growth and creating more opportunities for us to enhance shareholder value.
Put another way, we are optimistic about our future and we will maintain our singular focus on fulfilling our mission efficiently, innovatively, and profitably as we navigate the backdrop of a broader market uncertainty attributable to interest rates, regulation, and policy change.
This is how we believe we can continue to differentiate ourselves and deliver value to our customers and the borrowers of rural America. And now operator, I'd like to see if we have any questions from anyone on the line today.

Question and Answer Session

Operator

(Operator instructions)
Your first question comes from Bill Ryan with Seaport Research Partners.

William Ryan

Thank you. Good morning, Brad and Aparna.
A couple of questions, one starting off at a high level and then one more numbers specific, but last quarter you sort, you mentioned that there might be a transformational securitization product coming out and I think we kind of, figured out it might be some form of a mortgage conduit.
Could you maybe provide us an update on where that stands right now, how you see the TAM, what the interest level is in the product as well, and what kind of fee structure it might have?

Bradford Nordholm

Yeah, good morning, Bill, and very nice to hear from you. We're always looking at opportunities to develop new uses for the securitization machine that we've really built at Farmer Mac.
I think during the last call we were suggesting that we were working on the possibility of securitizing loans that look a lot like our farm and ranch loans but might be originated by others, and that exploration work, that feasibility work continues with market participants being the primary focus of that work. We also are doing some exploration of the feasibility of securitizing some of our renewable energy loans.
At the end of the day, in all cases, we're going to look at the impact on notional profitability as well as return on allocated equity capital and making any final decisions. And so stay tuned. It's something that you'll continue to hear. About during 2025, but there are no pending announcements.
And why don't I turn to Aparna to address your second question.

Aparna Ramesh

Hi, good morning, Bill. I think you said you had a numbers related question as well.

William Ryan

Just a number of questions in terms of the [GNXenses] it's obviously a little bit elevated this quarter, and you talked about deployment of the treasury cash management system and some transactional legal fees.
Is this, could you talk about maybe unpack it a little bit like what were the specific components and is this a new level that we should think about going forward?

Aparna Ramesh

Yeah, I think you're right in that, we did have an elevated level of operating expenses in Q4 when you compare that to the price quarters also resulted in a slightly elevated level of efficiency ratio, although staying within our target of 30%. I think it's important to just look at our operating expenses given. Some seasonality that we see, particularly in the first and fourth quarters.
I think looking at it annually is probably a better metric, but very specifically, and as we did have an elevation in our GNA expenses in particular, and one big factor associated with that had to do with our exception into some of these newer lines of business. Especially our telecom, as well as our renewable energy, as we continue to grow in these segments, we, at least at the status level, we did experience some additional legal fees.
I wouldn't say that that is expected to be an endemic level, but you could expect a little bit of volatility there. So that was one of the drivers. I would say the vastly larger driver, which I think will moderate over time, has to do with the culmination of our stars program as we announced in Q4, we successfully completed our SARS initiative. Accompanying that with some what I would call one time or lumpy expenses that were associated with the completion of that program that we have to pay contractors for.
So these were the two singular drivers of a slightly elevated what I would call general and administrative expenses. But what I would note though is all the compensation expenses went up just a tad bit and again that is associated with some level of seasonality. We've actually held our headcount as well as our operating expenses as it pertains to compensation at extremely manageable levels, including our headcount for Q4.

William Ryan

Okay, thank you. I'll get back in the queue.

Operator

Your next question comes from Bose George, KBW.

Bose George

Hey everyone, good morning. Actually I wanted to ask first just about the outlook for this for spreads and assuming it looks like rates have hopefully found a range here and the Fed might be on hold, and if that is, what happens with rates, can you just talk about what you'd expect for spreads this year?

Bradford Nordholm

Yeah, good morning, Bose, and again, very nice to you too.
I'll offer a few high-level comments and then ask both a partner from a funding standpoint and Zach Carpenter from a business segment standpoint to provide some additional color, but my observation is that as we're going into 2025, we're seeing a little bit of a, of almost like a competition between the rate of growth on a notional basis of some of the wider spread businesses segments such as renewable energy, and what we're seeing is some accelerated growth in our farm and ranch products, which is lower capital consuming but also a bit lower in spread.
I think in past years we have provided some caution about net effective spread, being sustained in the high 10s, 115% to 120%. I think we've suggested that it could drop down into the 112, 113. You kind of see that it's held up remarkably well and that's been because in that competition, those higher margin segments, experienced a lot of growth this last year.
But, Zack, maybe you can comment on just how kind of how you're saying the development of that between a farm and ranch and these other segments going into '25.

Zachary Carpenter

Yeah, absolutely happy to, first and foremost in farm and ranch, the one thing I will note is two things farmers are getting used to the higher rate environment.
Maybe there was an expectation heading to '24 that the rates would come down. Clearly, given the economic environment, that's not the case, coupled with a tight agricultural economy, farmers are needing additional liquidity and And they've gotten a little bit used to the higher rate environment and needing to support working capital and potential growth. And so we're seeing that increased demand in farmer ranch, even though I'd say overall rates remain higher than 21 and 22, and we think that's going to, keep pace in 2025.
I say in our newer lines of business we had significant growth in the fourth quarter across corporate ag, broadband infrastructure, and renewable energy. Those spreads and the businesses maintained and in many instances increased in the fourth quarter. And given that growth and given the pipeline that we see in these newer lines of business, we anticipate those spreads to, maintain, around those levels plus or minus a couple basis points here or there.
But we don't see any deterioration in the creativeness of those newer lines of business heading into 2025. The one thing I would comment on. Pertains to advantage, credit spreads for investment grade counterparties continue to be extremely tight, which is part of the reason we've seen some, declines in volumes in 2024. We've seen some widening and out recently, but nothing significant.
So unless we see some more market volatility, we'd anticipate the credit spreads and manage to remain relatively tight and could be volatile to volumes heading into 2025.

Bradford Nordholm

Yeah, apart of anything at funding or how we're managing our balance sheet that has implications for the NES in response to Bose's question.

Aparna Ramesh

Well, let me just tackle your question a little bit retrospectively, but also prospectively. So you've noted, just how we manage the balance sheet and our net effect of credit on the funding standpoint, I'll just highlight a couple of things that we think will persist in terms of just how we strategically optimize our balance sheet.
Over the past year, we've certainly seen a very interesting yield curve environment, something a little bit more typical in Q3 that allowed us to redeem some of our callable issuances, and that really helped us to actually smoothen out our net effective spread.
That was offset by some volatile floating rate funding that we experienced in the first quarter of this year. But again, I highlight these two dynamics because it gives you a sense of just how well hedged our funding strategies are. And as we head into 2025, I think the markets were certainly expecting a more rapid easing cycle than what has been communicated by the Fed as we head into 2025, but perhaps, one rate cut scheduled for the second half of the year.
So as we think about our funding strategy, we mirror that very closely with how our businesses and our business segment outlook and you just heard that from Zack. We expect to be able to deploy a number of the tools that we have at our disposal, whether it's our fixed rate callable instruments. So let's just say we see an easing.
A faster easing than anticipated that should actually give us a little bit of an asymmetric benefit relative to rates staying flat or trend a little bit higher, and that has to do with the fact that we took advantage and cropped off a little bit of net effective spread while rates remained high by bringing in more fixed rate cost.
So as we head into a what I would call a medium term easing cycle, you should really start to see our net effective spread, everything else remaining equal benefit from that hedging strategy that arises from a fixed rate callable strategy. The only other point that I would make, and I think you alluded to this initially, is what happens if rates stay pretty high, I would say that, assuming a flat to perhaps 100 basis point shock on our existing portfolio. You can expect the effect on our net effective spread coupled with just how we think about our loan portfolio to result essentially in a flat net effective spread projection.

Bose George

Yeah, that's great. That's very good detail. I appreciate that.
And then actually in terms of on the credit side, you're moving into higher product spread over time. Is there a way to think about the impact of that on credit over time? The credit loss content, relative to your historic content on the farm and ranch, course. Has obviously been minimal, is there kind of a way to think about what's, I mean you've noted that a lot of this stuff is idiosyncratic, but is there a way to think about, where the run rate could be versus your core farming ranch where you know the run rate is so close to 0?

Bradford Nordholm

With the credits that we're focused on right now that require a bit more attention, substandard, it continues to be pretty idiosyncratic. I think on prior calls last year we were talking about some of the stresses with permanent crops and specifically almonds in California. Well, we have a situation where actually almond prices have rebounded quite nicely. That will kind of play through the system.
Over the next year, it doesn't immediately result in a pickup because of contracts and other factors. And another one and Aparna mentioned this, we have a renewable energy project that requires some additional attention that had to do with some failure of equipment during construction.
It's a situation where we expect that between insurance and contractors, it'll get back on track just fine, but in an abundance of caution we have downgraded that and of special provisions. So that's a situation where we could see some reversal. So it continues to be very difficult to project a systemic or sector, credit problem for us. It tends to be kind of one asset at a time. And while the numbers say that we're in a more challenging part of the credit cycle.
Both 96 day delinquencies as well as sub standards are up. At the same time, the situations that we see continue to be kind of related to very special situations. So I'm reluctant to provide any guidance on how that very favorable historic experience, will be trending up in the future. There's not current evidence to say, yes, we're going to have a problem here or there, it tends to be one at a time.

Bose George

Okay, that's definitely helpful. Sorry, go ahead.

Aparna Ramesh

And if I might just add one comment to what Brad said, which will likely help you if you think about this, and you know it does point to the fact that we tend to have a more conservative outlook in terms of credit, and this has to do with the way our expected loss models work.
So when we start to see volume shifting towards more creative lines of business that also draws more expected loss estimates of projections, and so that tends to smooth out over time. So that's just something to keep in mind as you're thinking about, modeling some of this, but it sort of all gets booked at once and then you don't have to worry about it get the volume in. There's a little bit of.

Bose George

Okay, great. Thanks. And then actually one political question, obviously a lot of noise and things happening in DC, but specifically in terms of the renewable renewable energy business. The Inflation Reduction Act provided a lot of funds for that.
Is there any indication that, there could be changes in sort of how the level of support for projects there or just any color in terms of what could be changing in DC relative to that?

Bradford Nordholm

Sure, a couple of thoughts on that. First of all, you've had some reports, for example, of grants being frozen by USDA for renewable energy projects and those things. The projects that we're financing are really not grant dependent. They're more investment tax credit dependent. And so it's important to start off by making that distinction.
Where exactly the administration and Congress, because it'll take a change in tax law, because the tax benefits associated with these projects remains to be seen. But a couple of points. First, the projects that we have financed, those credits are locked in and their credits, they're not grants.
Second, that when you look at congressional support. For the tax credit elements of the inflation Reduction Act, particularly as it relates to some of the projects, for construction of new energy infrastructure and certain types of renewable energy.
A lot of that money has been spent in traditional Republican districts and it's quite popular. So I think we're taking a wait and see attitude. We are very much comforted by the fact that what we have on our books is locked in, and if things change, we can adjust our origination accordingly. The final point I would make is that these remained huge addressable markets for us.
So when you look at the increase in our renewable energy segment on a percentage basis, it's, pretty impressive. On a notional basis, it's becoming quite impressive. But relative to the addressable market, it's still but a drop. And so, we're going to continue to be very disciplined in what we originate.
We're going to continue to leverage the relationships that our key professionals have with other industry players to focus on quality projects and if there are changes in tax law, we will adjust accordingly. We're not in a position where we can't make those adjustments in a nanosecond, if we see something unexpected or negative coming out of tax legislation, for example.

Bose George

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

(Operator instructions)
Your next question comes from Gary Gordon.

Gary Gordon

So I had several questions. Most are asked, just one last one on the loan loss reserve, so you described the the credit issues last year as idiosyncratic. And those were dealt with with specific reserves and charge offs. Overall though, the the reserve was up by about $7 million.
So the question is where do we go from here? Are there This introduce a period of, steadier increases or not, so I guess maybe I?
But the question is, since you've discovered some idiosyncratic issues, is the expectation that's part of your business going forward, or was this sort of a catch up in the reserve to reflect that things can happen? Just trying to think about the extent of the reserve build up last year and what that means going forward.

Bradford Nordholm

Yeah, I'm going to turn to Marc Crady to give you some additional color on this.
But let me just first start by saying that for a $30 billion dollar balance sheet of $7 million dollar additional reserve is nothing compared to other financial institutions. And it kind of sticks out because, it's maybe a bit more for us, but relative to other institutions and relative to our credit, our capital, pardon me, relative to our capital. It's extremely minimal.
And I also know that it's very difficult to provide, more specific because these situations do continue to be pretty idiosyncratic, but let me just turn to Mark.
Marc, maybe you can come off mute and let me turn to you to provide a little bit more color to help address Gary's question.

Marc Crady

Good morning, Gary. First off, I would say, the increasing allowance did not reflect, any sort of catch up. I'll talk about the allowance in terms of the entire year of 2024, so the allowance increased by about $11 million.
$2 million was a farm and ranch loan we talked about in the second quarter. Third quarter we increased the allowance by about a million dollars on another farm and ranch loan. And then earlier in the opening remarks and Brad mentioned the renewable energy loan that we took a 14 provision in the fourth quarter. So those three together represented $6.5 million of the $11 million dollar increase for the year.
And the remainder, represented, various other downgrades, primarily the results of the agricultural cycle and then volume growth, we had significant volume growth in our in our new corporate segments which kind of required a bit more capital than farm and ranch. So again, I'll just sort of, emphasize it wasn't a catch up in in 2024, really, continue to be sort of idiosyncratic, loans that we saw during the year.
If we got let's say 0 idiosyncratic issues this year, presumably the reserve wouldn't have to change materially.

Bradford Nordholm

I think that's right.
Keep in mind, Gary, that, loan growth is one of that. The other thing though that I want to mention in response to your question of whether this is catch up, there was a time in my career a long time ago when management had significant discretion on how those alls were funded.
That is not the case today, these allowances are highly challenged and scrutinized by both our auditors, and our regulators, and so we follow very strict formulas that are aligned with the classifications of the loans and the models that we use for allocating allowances when we do new business.
And there's very little discretion in there, so what you see is what you get. And if something reverses, we suggest that you could see a reversal in this renewable energy alone, for example, if something reverses, it'll go down and if something comes on, it'll go up, but we can always point to very specific situations that are the cause of that.

Gary Gordon

Okay, thank you.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to Brad Nordham for closing remarks.

Bradford Nordholm

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for participating. I really do appreciate it. We, learned something hearing the questions and what's on your mind. And to that end, if there are follow-up questions, please reach out to Java.
We want to be very transparent and thorough and to you. We will host our next regularly scheduled call in May. At that time we'll be reporting our first quarter 2025 results, and as I said earlier in my comments, we are very optimistic about 2025 and for that reason look forward to having that call with you.
In the meantime, all the best for a little bit warmer weather for most of you, and thanks again for your participation.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating in FA please disconnect your lines.